SWA: "3 years left of pilot shortage"
06-04-2023, 02:33 AM
#11
Gets Weekend Reserve
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,776
The problem is that air travel is being treated as a public utility.
There are a shortage of medical specialists. You know that because when you try to make an appointment, they can’t see you for weeks or months. But nobody is trying to reduce the qualifications or requirements to become a specialist in medicine.
In our profession though, everyone from airline executives, to the media, to congress, and even some of our very own PILOTS are actively trying to lower the barriers to entry to make it easier to put a seat warmer in the cockpit! It’s absurd… you wouldn’t find a doctor arguing that it should be easier to become a doctor. They know their worth.
Why? Because every family feels as though they are owed a trip to Disneyland for $49 round trip. And airlines are trying to extract any costs they can from the business to make that happen. Labor is low hanging fruit. But why have we as pilots been helping those efforts? Because pilots have always been our own worst enemy…
Gulfstream International… pilots paid $20,000 for 100 dollars in the right seat of a Beech 1900 doing revenue service…
Kiwi International Airlines… pilots paid $50,000 to the company in exchange for a job
Valujet… pilots paid for their DC9 training
Comair Academy… pilots paid $10,000+ for training at Comair, Great Lakes,
FlightSafety… pilots paid $10,000+ for training at Chautauqua, Commutair, Pinnacle, Mesaba, Continental Express, etc… and didn’t get an official job offer until they successfully passed.
SWA… required a 737 type rating for many years to even earn an interview. The lucky few had one from other airlines. The rest paid for their training.
And today, pilots advocate to reduce the ATP rule, increase the retirement age… anything we can do to get there quicker and stay longer, experience and safety be damned. Shiny jet syndrome. Pilots want the job, but can’t seem to wrap their heads around why the job is as lucrative as it is. Because if it were easy, everybody would do it. And that’s just what management wants. To turn this profession that we love into just another public transportation system. We went from crisp uniforms to leather coats and ski jackets. They make training easier. They look for ways to adopt a European type system of master and apprentice. Every day they chip away at the passion, dedication, and tradition that made todays pilots strive to reach that goal. And we are helping them do it.
The pilot shortage is a management problem forged by three decades of treating commuter airline pilots like beasts of burden. Let management fix it without our help.
There are a shortage of medical specialists. You know that because when you try to make an appointment, they can’t see you for weeks or months. But nobody is trying to reduce the qualifications or requirements to become a specialist in medicine.
In our profession though, everyone from airline executives, to the media, to congress, and even some of our very own PILOTS are actively trying to lower the barriers to entry to make it easier to put a seat warmer in the cockpit! It’s absurd… you wouldn’t find a doctor arguing that it should be easier to become a doctor. They know their worth.
Why? Because every family feels as though they are owed a trip to Disneyland for $49 round trip. And airlines are trying to extract any costs they can from the business to make that happen. Labor is low hanging fruit. But why have we as pilots been helping those efforts? Because pilots have always been our own worst enemy…
Gulfstream International… pilots paid $20,000 for 100 dollars in the right seat of a Beech 1900 doing revenue service…
Kiwi International Airlines… pilots paid $50,000 to the company in exchange for a job
Valujet… pilots paid for their DC9 training
Comair Academy… pilots paid $10,000+ for training at Comair, Great Lakes,
FlightSafety… pilots paid $10,000+ for training at Chautauqua, Commutair, Pinnacle, Mesaba, Continental Express, etc… and didn’t get an official job offer until they successfully passed.
SWA… required a 737 type rating for many years to even earn an interview. The lucky few had one from other airlines. The rest paid for their training.
And today, pilots advocate to reduce the ATP rule, increase the retirement age… anything we can do to get there quicker and stay longer, experience and safety be damned. Shiny jet syndrome. Pilots want the job, but can’t seem to wrap their heads around why the job is as lucrative as it is. Because if it were easy, everybody would do it. And that’s just what management wants. To turn this profession that we love into just another public transportation system. We went from crisp uniforms to leather coats and ski jackets. They make training easier. They look for ways to adopt a European type system of master and apprentice. Every day they chip away at the passion, dedication, and tradition that made todays pilots strive to reach that goal. And we are helping them do it.
The pilot shortage is a management problem forged by three decades of treating commuter airline pilots like beasts of burden. Let management fix it without our help.
Well said!
06-04-2023, 05:56 AM
#12
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: American Airlines Brake Pad Replacement Technician
Posts: 476
The problem is that air travel is being treated as a public utility.
There are a shortage of medical specialists. You know that because when you try to make an appointment, they can’t see you for weeks or months. But nobody is trying to reduce the qualifications or requirements to become a specialist in medicine.
In our profession though, everyone from airline executives, to the media, to congress, and even some of our very own PILOTS are actively trying to lower the barriers to entry to make it easier to put a seat warmer in the cockpit! It’s absurd… you wouldn’t find a doctor arguing that it should be easier to become a doctor. They know their worth.
Why? Because every family feels as though they are owed a trip to Disneyland for $49 round trip. And airlines are trying to extract any costs they can from the business to make that happen. Labor is low hanging fruit. But why have we as pilots been helping those efforts? Because pilots have always been our own worst enemy…
Gulfstream International… pilots paid $20,000 for 100 dollars in the right seat of a Beech 1900 doing revenue service…
Kiwi International Airlines… pilots paid $50,000 to the company in exchange for a job
Valujet… pilots paid for their DC9 training
Comair Academy… pilots paid $10,000+ for training at Comair, Great Lakes,
FlightSafety… pilots paid $10,000+ for training at Chautauqua, Commutair, Pinnacle, Mesaba, Continental Express, etc… and didn’t get an official job offer until they successfully passed.
SWA… required a 737 type rating for many years to even earn an interview. The lucky few had one from other airlines. The rest paid for their training.
And today, pilots advocate to reduce the ATP rule, increase the retirement age… anything we can do to get there quicker and stay longer, experience and safety be damned. Shiny jet syndrome. Pilots want the job, but can’t seem to wrap their heads around why the job is as lucrative as it is. Because if it were easy, everybody would do it. And that’s just what management wants. To turn this profession that we love into just another public transportation system. We went from crisp uniforms to leather coats and ski jackets. They make training easier. They look for ways to adopt a European type system of master and apprentice. Every day they chip away at the passion, dedication, and tradition that made todays pilots strive to reach that goal. And we are helping them do it.
The pilot shortage is a management problem forged by three decades of treating commuter airline pilots like beasts of burden. Let management fix it without our help.
There are a shortage of medical specialists. You know that because when you try to make an appointment, they can’t see you for weeks or months. But nobody is trying to reduce the qualifications or requirements to become a specialist in medicine.
In our profession though, everyone from airline executives, to the media, to congress, and even some of our very own PILOTS are actively trying to lower the barriers to entry to make it easier to put a seat warmer in the cockpit! It’s absurd… you wouldn’t find a doctor arguing that it should be easier to become a doctor. They know their worth.
Why? Because every family feels as though they are owed a trip to Disneyland for $49 round trip. And airlines are trying to extract any costs they can from the business to make that happen. Labor is low hanging fruit. But why have we as pilots been helping those efforts? Because pilots have always been our own worst enemy…
Gulfstream International… pilots paid $20,000 for 100 dollars in the right seat of a Beech 1900 doing revenue service…
Kiwi International Airlines… pilots paid $50,000 to the company in exchange for a job
Valujet… pilots paid for their DC9 training
Comair Academy… pilots paid $10,000+ for training at Comair, Great Lakes,
FlightSafety… pilots paid $10,000+ for training at Chautauqua, Commutair, Pinnacle, Mesaba, Continental Express, etc… and didn’t get an official job offer until they successfully passed.
SWA… required a 737 type rating for many years to even earn an interview. The lucky few had one from other airlines. The rest paid for their training.
And today, pilots advocate to reduce the ATP rule, increase the retirement age… anything we can do to get there quicker and stay longer, experience and safety be damned. Shiny jet syndrome. Pilots want the job, but can’t seem to wrap their heads around why the job is as lucrative as it is. Because if it were easy, everybody would do it. And that’s just what management wants. To turn this profession that we love into just another public transportation system. We went from crisp uniforms to leather coats and ski jackets. They make training easier. They look for ways to adopt a European type system of master and apprentice. Every day they chip away at the passion, dedication, and tradition that made todays pilots strive to reach that goal. And we are helping them do it.
The pilot shortage is a management problem forged by three decades of treating commuter airline pilots like beasts of burden. Let management fix it without our help.
06-04-2023, 06:04 AM
#13
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Apr 2017
Posts: 3,796
The problem is that air travel is being treated as a public utility.
There are a shortage of medical specialists. You know that because when you try to make an appointment, they can’t see you for weeks or months. But nobody is trying to reduce the qualifications or requirements to become a specialist in medicine.
In our profession though, everyone from airline executives, to the media, to congress, and even some of our very own PILOTS are actively trying to lower the barriers to entry to make it easier to put a seat warmer in the cockpit! It’s absurd… you wouldn’t find a doctor arguing that it should be easier to become a doctor. They know their worth.
Why? Because every family feels as though they are owed a trip to Disneyland for $49 round trip. And airlines are trying to extract any costs they can from the business to make that happen. Labor is low hanging fruit. But why have we as pilots been helping those efforts? Because pilots have always been our own worst enemy…
Gulfstream International… pilots paid $20,000 for 100 dollars in the right seat of a Beech 1900 doing revenue service…
Kiwi International Airlines… pilots paid $50,000 to the company in exchange for a job
Valujet… pilots paid for their DC9 training
Comair Academy… pilots paid $10,000+ for training at Comair, Great Lakes,
FlightSafety… pilots paid $10,000+ for training at Chautauqua, Commutair, Pinnacle, Mesaba, Continental Express, etc… and didn’t get an official job offer until they successfully passed.
SWA… required a 737 type rating for many years to even earn an interview. The lucky few had one from other airlines. The rest paid for their training.
And today, pilots advocate to reduce the ATP rule, increase the retirement age… anything we can do to get there quicker and stay longer, experience and safety be damned. Shiny jet syndrome. Pilots want the job, but can’t seem to wrap their heads around why the job is as lucrative as it is. Because if it were easy, everybody would do it. And that’s just what management wants. To turn this profession that we love into just another public transportation system. We went from crisp uniforms to leather coats and ski jackets. They make training easier. They look for ways to adopt a European type system of master and apprentice. Every day they chip away at the passion, dedication, and tradition that made todays pilots strive to reach that goal. And we are helping them do it.
The pilot shortage is a management problem forged by three decades of treating commuter airline pilots like beasts of burden. Let management fix it without our help.
There are a shortage of medical specialists. You know that because when you try to make an appointment, they can’t see you for weeks or months. But nobody is trying to reduce the qualifications or requirements to become a specialist in medicine.
In our profession though, everyone from airline executives, to the media, to congress, and even some of our very own PILOTS are actively trying to lower the barriers to entry to make it easier to put a seat warmer in the cockpit! It’s absurd… you wouldn’t find a doctor arguing that it should be easier to become a doctor. They know their worth.
Why? Because every family feels as though they are owed a trip to Disneyland for $49 round trip. And airlines are trying to extract any costs they can from the business to make that happen. Labor is low hanging fruit. But why have we as pilots been helping those efforts? Because pilots have always been our own worst enemy…
Gulfstream International… pilots paid $20,000 for 100 dollars in the right seat of a Beech 1900 doing revenue service…
Kiwi International Airlines… pilots paid $50,000 to the company in exchange for a job
Valujet… pilots paid for their DC9 training
Comair Academy… pilots paid $10,000+ for training at Comair, Great Lakes,
FlightSafety… pilots paid $10,000+ for training at Chautauqua, Commutair, Pinnacle, Mesaba, Continental Express, etc… and didn’t get an official job offer until they successfully passed.
SWA… required a 737 type rating for many years to even earn an interview. The lucky few had one from other airlines. The rest paid for their training.
And today, pilots advocate to reduce the ATP rule, increase the retirement age… anything we can do to get there quicker and stay longer, experience and safety be damned. Shiny jet syndrome. Pilots want the job, but can’t seem to wrap their heads around why the job is as lucrative as it is. Because if it were easy, everybody would do it. And that’s just what management wants. To turn this profession that we love into just another public transportation system. We went from crisp uniforms to leather coats and ski jackets. They make training easier. They look for ways to adopt a European type system of master and apprentice. Every day they chip away at the passion, dedication, and tradition that made todays pilots strive to reach that goal. And we are helping them do it.
The pilot shortage is a management problem forged by three decades of treating commuter airline pilots like beasts of burden. Let management fix it without our help.
06-04-2023, 06:12 AM
#15
Disinterested Third Party
Joined APC: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,274
The problem is that air travel is being treated as a public utility.
There are a shortage of medical specialists. You know that because when you try to make an appointment, they can’t see you for weeks or months. But nobody is trying to reduce the qualifications or requirements to become a specialist in medicine.
There are a shortage of medical specialists. You know that because when you try to make an appointment, they can’t see you for weeks or months. But nobody is trying to reduce the qualifications or requirements to become a specialist in medicine.
The medical profession isn't suffering for lack of personnel; the business model is shifting. Many specialists and practitioners are going to a subscriber model with a hard limit on the number of clients; a retainer is paid, or a membership fee, and the doctor gains his or her income from ten percent of what used to walk through the doors, with no additional clientele required. The reduction isn't in the number of personnel, but in the business model.
Aviation, similarly, has had significant changes operation over the past few years, and indeed we might look to 09/11 and the shuttering of 1/3 of the nation's flight schools overnight as the gateway into our current state, to say nothing of the pandemic. What we see now didn't exist prior: it's artificial, and it will go away.
A compressed spring bounced back with some force, but once released, it won't sustain that impact until reset. Society in the wake of the pandemic is the spring and this temporary violence is the impact. It will not last.
06-04-2023, 06:36 AM
#16
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2019
Posts: 251
The problem is that air travel is being treated as a public utility.
There are a shortage of medical specialists. You know that because when you try to make an appointment, they can’t see you for weeks or months. But nobody is trying to reduce the qualifications or requirements to become a specialist in medicine.
In our profession though, everyone from airline executives, to the media, to congress, and even some of our very own PILOTS are actively trying to lower the barriers to entry to make it easier to put a seat warmer in the cockpit! It’s absurd… you wouldn’t find a doctor arguing that it should be easier to become a doctor. They know their worth.
Why? Because every family feels as though they are owed a trip to Disneyland for $49 round trip. And airlines are trying to extract any costs they can from the business to make that happen. Labor is low hanging fruit. But why have we as pilots been helping those efforts? Because pilots have always been our own worst enemy…
Gulfstream International… pilots paid $20,000 for 100 dollars in the right seat of a Beech 1900 doing revenue service…
Kiwi International Airlines… pilots paid $50,000 to the company in exchange for a job
Valujet… pilots paid for their DC9 training
Comair Academy… pilots paid $10,000+ for training at Comair, Great Lakes,
FlightSafety… pilots paid $10,000+ for training at Chautauqua, Commutair, Pinnacle, Mesaba, Continental Express, etc… and didn’t get an official job offer until they successfully passed.
SWA… required a 737 type rating for many years to even earn an interview. The lucky few had one from other airlines. The rest paid for their training.
And today, pilots advocate to reduce the ATP rule, increase the retirement age… anything we can do to get there quicker and stay longer, experience and safety be damned. Shiny jet syndrome. Pilots want the job, but can’t seem to wrap their heads around why the job is as lucrative as it is. Because if it were easy, everybody would do it. And that’s just what management wants. To turn this profession that we love into just another public transportation system. We went from crisp uniforms to leather coats and ski jackets. They make training easier. They look for ways to adopt a European type system of master and apprentice. Every day they chip away at the passion, dedication, and tradition that made todays pilots strive to reach that goal. And we are helping them do it.
The pilot shortage is a management problem forged by three decades of treating commuter airline pilots like beasts of burden. Let management fix it without our help.
There are a shortage of medical specialists. You know that because when you try to make an appointment, they can’t see you for weeks or months. But nobody is trying to reduce the qualifications or requirements to become a specialist in medicine.
In our profession though, everyone from airline executives, to the media, to congress, and even some of our very own PILOTS are actively trying to lower the barriers to entry to make it easier to put a seat warmer in the cockpit! It’s absurd… you wouldn’t find a doctor arguing that it should be easier to become a doctor. They know their worth.
Why? Because every family feels as though they are owed a trip to Disneyland for $49 round trip. And airlines are trying to extract any costs they can from the business to make that happen. Labor is low hanging fruit. But why have we as pilots been helping those efforts? Because pilots have always been our own worst enemy…
Gulfstream International… pilots paid $20,000 for 100 dollars in the right seat of a Beech 1900 doing revenue service…
Kiwi International Airlines… pilots paid $50,000 to the company in exchange for a job
Valujet… pilots paid for their DC9 training
Comair Academy… pilots paid $10,000+ for training at Comair, Great Lakes,
FlightSafety… pilots paid $10,000+ for training at Chautauqua, Commutair, Pinnacle, Mesaba, Continental Express, etc… and didn’t get an official job offer until they successfully passed.
SWA… required a 737 type rating for many years to even earn an interview. The lucky few had one from other airlines. The rest paid for their training.
And today, pilots advocate to reduce the ATP rule, increase the retirement age… anything we can do to get there quicker and stay longer, experience and safety be damned. Shiny jet syndrome. Pilots want the job, but can’t seem to wrap their heads around why the job is as lucrative as it is. Because if it were easy, everybody would do it. And that’s just what management wants. To turn this profession that we love into just another public transportation system. We went from crisp uniforms to leather coats and ski jackets. They make training easier. They look for ways to adopt a European type system of master and apprentice. Every day they chip away at the passion, dedication, and tradition that made todays pilots strive to reach that goal. And we are helping them do it.
The pilot shortage is a management problem forged by three decades of treating commuter airline pilots like beasts of burden. Let management fix it without our help.
The funny thing is if we hit bad economic times these plans will be reversed in a heartbeat ! It will go from famine to feast again for them.
06-04-2023, 07:46 AM
#17
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,906
We live in an industry where the up and coming worry more about whether than get to have facial hair, than the terms and conditions of their future employment.
The medical profession isn't suffering for lack of personnel; the business model is shifting. Many specialists and practitioners are going to a subscriber model with a hard limit on the number of clients; a retainer is paid, or a membership fee, and the doctor gains his or her income from ten percent of what used to walk through the doors, with no additional clientele required. The reduction isn't in the number of personnel, but in the business model.
Aviation, similarly, has had significant changes operation over the past few years, and indeed we might look to 09/11 and the shuttering of 1/3 of the nation's flight schools overnight as the gateway into our current state, to say nothing of the pandemic. What we see now didn't exist prior: it's artificial, and it will go away.
A compressed spring bounced back with some force, but once released, it won't sustain that impact until reset. Society in the wake of the pandemic is the spring and this temporary violence is the impact. It will not last.
The medical profession isn't suffering for lack of personnel; the business model is shifting. Many specialists and practitioners are going to a subscriber model with a hard limit on the number of clients; a retainer is paid, or a membership fee, and the doctor gains his or her income from ten percent of what used to walk through the doors, with no additional clientele required. The reduction isn't in the number of personnel, but in the business model.
Aviation, similarly, has had significant changes operation over the past few years, and indeed we might look to 09/11 and the shuttering of 1/3 of the nation's flight schools overnight as the gateway into our current state, to say nothing of the pandemic. What we see now didn't exist prior: it's artificial, and it will go away.
A compressed spring bounced back with some force, but once released, it won't sustain that impact until reset. Society in the wake of the pandemic is the spring and this temporary violence is the impact. It will not last.
Commuters and regionals had zero problems filling their classes up until the bankruptcy at the majors. Heck, they were doing PFT schemes at certain times. You never needed an "ATP rule" because there were so many people looking to fly, the mins were typically well, well beyond simple ATP mins. There were times in the 70s, 80s and 90s where the hiring was so fast, turnover at some commuters and regionals was over 100% in some years, yet they never seemed to have any problem filling classes.
The slashing of the contracts at the majors, which I'm sure brought Sonic great joy, broke the chain. Why spend $50k (at the time) to go work for some scuzzy regional for 6 years, working 21 days a month at their beck and call, for $17k a year when the golden ring at the majors is no longer there. Pay for medical, retirement lost, salaries cut in half, who wants to be part of that?
It was right after that episode that the pipeline to the regionals dried up. Come 2006 or so, well, surprise surprise, no one wanted to be an airline pilot, and the first place that showed up was at the regionals. Let me put on my shocked face. They slashed their hiring quals, then again, and then again until they were hiring wet commercials.
Well, bad things happened and the Feds had to step in. But if the compensation structure was correct, that should never had to have happened.
The added hit was 9/11. In 1990, you could go zero to hero for about $12-15k, and that rose slightly until 2001. After that, insurance went nuts, the GA market collapsed, and what should cost about $30k is now pushing $100k and that's not going to get any better as old airframes finally give out. A robust, healthy GA pipeline was absolutely critical to pilot supply, yet the airlines and GA were always at each other's throats, so isn't that ironic, just a little bit, that the airlines now suffer due to the bad GA environment?
I would probably say some societal changes haven't helped. The airlines are stuck in the 50's. Cut your hair, can't grow a beard. Friends and "experiences" are very important to GenZ, so the thought of working every single weekend and holiday while friends out out "doing things" and posting on Pick Pok, Twitterbug, MyFace or whatever the flavor of the month is, is probably pretty discouraging. Don't forget, no drinking, no drugs, and so these are pretty tight constraints these days.
If the money at the majors was right, as it had been for decades, some of these problems would go away.
The collapse of GA is a different problem that's not going to get fixed soon, if ever.
06-04-2023, 07:49 AM
#18
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Apr 2017
Posts: 3,796
If you're alluding to the 1500 hour rule resulting from the Colgan crash, that had nothing to do with safety. This has long since been explained.
06-04-2023, 07:50 AM
#19
Furloughed Again?!
Joined APC: Aug 2007
Position: Boeing 737
Posts: 4,804
I don’t think it’s too much to ask for a certificate airline transport pilot to fly an airline transport.
06-04-2023, 08:13 AM
#20
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,906
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