FAs have an AIP...
06-18-2023, 10:36 PM
#51
Strike averted!
Joined APC: Mar 2015
Position: B737
Posts: 3,789
Some of us are even married to an FA. That being said, the pilot group feels (with evidence unfortunately) that we are sitting targets for the cabin crew. Once I found out inflight leaders advocated writing up the pilots—well, have a nice day.
After the bar brawl, I fully understood the separate van/hotel argument. I for one still want to see the tape.
As for better hotels, the previously mentioned one recently remodeled the restaurant which is a plus—but give me a break already with the traffic on a PM show. And no, I don’t want to stay in the Aloft either.
After the bar brawl, I fully understood the separate van/hotel argument. I for one still want to see the tape.
As for better hotels, the previously mentioned one recently remodeled the restaurant which is a plus—but give me a break already with the traffic on a PM show. And no, I don’t want to stay in the Aloft either.
06-19-2023, 04:56 AM
#52
New Hire
Joined APC: Jun 2023
Posts: 7
AIP
Thank you for all that have responded & filled in the gaps -& those who have apologized for a minority’s voice of disrespect -I can answer to a few comments -I understand about the procedures the pilots have at the end of the night that take longer -I can address one particular observation -the responsibility of the Capt checking girt bars & back lavs was not always the procedure -neither was the “cross check” for fa’s. The “cross check” of each other & subsequent procedure is pretty much industry I standard & came about because of the rising incidents of girt bars either not engaged for pushback because of distractions or inadvertent lapses (prob due to fatigue at the end of the night ) costly & dangerous -the capt triple checking fa’s came from a random pax who managed to stay in the back lav at the end of the night after the plane was shut down. Unusual & suspect -but all it takes is one incident to knee jerk & change procedure (sometimes for the best , sometimes illogical ) recently , because some fa insisted that preboard pax sit in front row , management has now said we can let all through pax move to front -then if we need front seats for wheelchair or such -reseat everyone again -a total waste of time in my opinion -a better option is just to coordinate w/ agent -ask if special preboard front row & 2nd row for Um’s is needed & kindly tell through pax to let new pax get settled & move to front row if open . As far as hotel selection goes -yes , stronger language is needed -short 11 or 12 hour nights airport hotel is fine -I think we all want comfortable hotels with nearby attractions (food, walkable , workout ) we don’t love long drives like COS , LGA , or SLC on short nights -but those accommodations make perfect sense for proximity to quality of life options while on the road. I’m always confused when I get a long overnight at a airport hotel & short one downtown -but I’m primarily a Pm flyer -so that might factor. Quality of hotels has ebbed & flowed during my tenure -it’s currently better than the phase of red roof inn’s that we had about 20 years ago - sincere apology to the current dynamic / climate of possible sexual harassment & lack of support . I understand& it’s unacceptable .
06-19-2023, 05:51 AM
#53
New Hire
Joined APC: Jun 2023
Posts: 7
AIP
I think it's more that pilots tend to want different things in a hotel than FAs. I'll leave out specific cities, but to pick one example, many FAs like one of our hotels because it's near a nice shopping mall in a tax-free state. Many pilots, me included, detest that hotel because it's very old and it's only near a shopping mall! 99% of the time, I want to be in a city center or other dense area so I can do things. I'm currently stuck for 20 hours at an isolated airport hotel, for example. I hate it, and this is the exact kind of scenario where we need hotel standards that would prevent this. An 11 hour overnight? This one's great; it's close. But on a long overnight it drains my soul.
Personally, I don't care about being in different hotels, but I do care that each group sets the standards of what's important to them. If those overlap, and I imagine they frequently will, then that's fine -- we'll be in the same hotel. If they don't, we won't.
This is because of our company procedures, many of which we can't do until the passengers are off. That's why you're waiting on us. Sometimes the ground power doesn't get hooked up properly (or at all). The ground crews often don't hook up ground air at the end of the day, so we have to run the APU for passenger/crew airflow during deplaning. We can't leave the APU unattended (again, a company policy, not an airplane requirement), so we can't shut it down until almost everybody's off. But since we had to wait to shut it down, now we're waiting 5 full minutes on the Max (that one is an airplane limit) before we can power everything else down and leave the airplane.
Meanwhile we also have to double-check the girt bars at the end of the night, even though our FAs are 100% capable of operating and cross-checking them all day long. Why? I don't know. Because that's "how we've always done it," I guess. But with every other airline on the planet I've ridden on, pilots finish the pilot stuff and step off, with the APU and other systems still running, and ground operations takes over doing their nightly stuff with it. I swear we do a lot of things differently just for the sake of being different, and are incredibly resistant to changing it. Up until just a few years ago, pilots couldn't even both leave the airplane at the same time unless it was completely powered down! That one only took 45 years to change, so maybe there's hope.
Personally, I don't care about being in different hotels, but I do care that each group sets the standards of what's important to them. If those overlap, and I imagine they frequently will, then that's fine -- we'll be in the same hotel. If they don't, we won't.
This is because of our company procedures, many of which we can't do until the passengers are off. That's why you're waiting on us. Sometimes the ground power doesn't get hooked up properly (or at all). The ground crews often don't hook up ground air at the end of the day, so we have to run the APU for passenger/crew airflow during deplaning. We can't leave the APU unattended (again, a company policy, not an airplane requirement), so we can't shut it down until almost everybody's off. But since we had to wait to shut it down, now we're waiting 5 full minutes on the Max (that one is an airplane limit) before we can power everything else down and leave the airplane.
Meanwhile we also have to double-check the girt bars at the end of the night, even though our FAs are 100% capable of operating and cross-checking them all day long. Why? I don't know. Because that's "how we've always done it," I guess. But with every other airline on the planet I've ridden on, pilots finish the pilot stuff and step off, with the APU and other systems still running, and ground operations takes over doing their nightly stuff with it. I swear we do a lot of things differently just for the sake of being different, and are incredibly resistant to changing it. Up until just a few years ago, pilots couldn't even both leave the airplane at the same time unless it was completely powered down! That one only took 45 years to change, so maybe there's hope.
**if you are speaking about Portland , we have been at monarch since we opened that -not sure why we haven’t stayed downtown in the past , but certainly now understand with the extreme homeless situation there . I’ve never even once been to that shopping mall. May I recommend that if you like walking , there’s a nice walking area across the hwy in a wooded area that is shaded (ask front hotel -think it’s mt Talbert ) & Gustave’s across the hwy used to offer a solid happy hour in the afternoon & near midnight their time -with many German food items at happy hour prices ( lentil soup , cheese fondue & sausages )if it’s still open -I have not been in years
06-19-2023, 05:54 AM
#54
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2017
Posts: 3,779
Our hotels are ****, simple as that, well at least the majority of them anyhow. I came from a regional and then an ULCC, and I had better hotels at the regional by far. I had amazing places to stay at the ULCC. I am not sure what our hotel committee actually does, but stay in the places they book us isnt one of them. I am trying really hard to think of the nice places I have been since coming here and really only SFO, LAS at the new place and that's about it. The real frustrating part is driving past the nicer hotels just to get to a dump that is farther away in a worse area lol.
06-19-2023, 09:29 AM
#55
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2012
Posts: 2,030
Our hotels are ****, simple as that, well at least the majority of them anyhow. I came from a regional and then an ULCC, and I had better hotels at the regional by far. I had amazing places to stay at the ULCC. I am not sure what our hotel committee actually does, but stay in the places they book us isnt one of them. I am trying really hard to think of the nice places I have been since coming here and really only SFO, LAS at the new place and that's about it. The real frustrating part is driving past the nicer hotels just to get to a dump that is farther away in a worse area lol.
The FAs on the CAB have the same mindset of those who were writing up pilots and being difficult about letting them out of the cockpit during covid. It was all about people on a power trip with something to use it on.
There was a lot of animosity generated by IF and TWU leadership with the awareness of the C-suites and even FO leadership during covid and I’m not forgetting it. I’d just rather not be around them anymore.
06-19-2023, 10:18 AM
#56
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,027
**if you are speaking about Portland , we have been at monarch since we opened that -not sure why we haven’t stayed downtown in the past , but certainly now understand with the extreme homeless situation there . I’ve never even once been to that shopping mall. May I recommend that if you like walking , there’s a nice walking area across the hwy in a wooded area that is shaded (ask front hotel -think it’s mt Talbert ) & Gustave’s across the hwy used to offer a solid happy hour in the afternoon & near midnight their time -with many German food items at happy hour prices ( lentil soup , cheese fondue & sausages )if it’s still open -I have not been in years
06-19-2023, 01:07 PM
#57
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2016
Posts: 290
Our hotels are ****, simple as that, well at least the majority of them anyhow. I came from a regional and then an ULCC, and I had better hotels at the regional by far. I had amazing places to stay at the ULCC. I am not sure what our hotel committee actually does, but stay in the places they book us isnt one of them. I am trying really hard to think of the nice places I have been since coming here and really only SFO, LAS at the new place and that's about it. The real frustrating part is driving past the nicer hotels just to get to a dump that is farther away in a worse area lol.
AA is less than 2 years now. If you want to fly widebody and live in Dallas, NY or South Florida, AA is what you want.
Come on over, the water is fine.
06-19-2023, 01:12 PM
#58
At your mom's house
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: cpt 737
Posts: 2,798
**if you are speaking about Portland , we have been at monarch since we opened that -not sure why we haven’t stayed downtown in the past , but certainly now understand with the extreme homeless situation there . I’ve never even once been to that shopping mall. May I recommend that if you like walking , there’s a nice walking area across the hwy in a wooded area that is shaded (ask front hotel -think it’s mt Talbert ) & Gustave’s across the hwy used to offer a solid happy hour in the afternoon & near midnight their time -with many German food items at happy hour prices ( lentil soup , cheese fondue & sausages )if it’s still open -I have not been in years
the new outside patio area at the hotel is nice for eating and they have actually good food and we get 50% off so it's not too crazy.
06-19-2023, 01:44 PM
#59
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,920
6.5. Which isn’t terrible for a 10k+ pilot single fleet airline. I’d rather put a hot soldering iron to my balls than work for AA.
06-19-2023, 03:21 PM
#60
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2016
Posts: 290
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