jetset

Because it is too late for them. They gave it as a concession and will probably never get it back.

Lewbronski

I’d already corrected my post before you posted your reply, but Alaska has line bidding.

Anyway, just because they (DAL, UA, AA) gave it up at some point in the past (maybe it was forced on them during BK?), doesn’t mean they can’t demand to go back to line bidding, especially with as much leverage as pilot groups have now.

There is absolutely nothing in the law that would prohibit them from demanding line bidding.

So, why didn’t Delta demand line bidding back? Why aren’t American and United demanding it back?

jetset

That is a valid question but are you suggesting that PBS is better because they haven't fought to get it back?

Lewbronski

I don’t know if it’s better. Many pilots at The Big 3, when asked, claim to like PBS.

Regardless of what they claim, though, what did Delta do with its negotiating capital? What are AA/UA doing with theirs’?

It’s similar to the idea of “money talks”: don’t listen to what people tell you is important to them, look at what they actually spend their money on.

Or, it’s like when a start up is trying to determine if a new product will sell, it’s usually much more actionable to offer for sale some sort of minimum viable product and see if people will actually buy it, as opposed to asking them if they would buy whatever product you hope to sell via a survey or questionnaire or interview.

So, looking at how Delta actually spent its negotiating capital and how American and United are actually spending their negotiating capital, it’s interesting to note that Delta didn’t and American/United aren’t spending any negotiating capital, in an era when they have a ton of negotiating capital, on an attempt to return to line bidding.

I would think if PBS were truly that terrible for the majority of their respective pilot groups, they’d make getting rid of PBS a priority use of their negotiating capital. But they didn’t and they aren’t. That’s interesting.

mulcher

I thought Alaska just gave line bidding away and got PBS this last round.

Lewbronski

Ya, you’re right. Good catch.

I knew there was a reason I was thinking that but then second-guessed myself. Very late night, little sleep last night. That’s my excuse,

jungleman4422

I think that a lot of people coming out of a regional will have a bit of PTSD from PBS, understandably so... But the guys at Delta that I know like it because they get a good amount of control with it and it feels less like throwing it a wall and watching it all fall to the 7th line. Line bidding is great for our vacation, but it is slightly restrictive due to you fighting for prebuilt lines that if chosen by a more senior you're not getting. That obviously is less of an issue when you hold a line because you can ELITT, but reserve you're stuck with TTGA.

at6d

PBS is a non-negotiable topic for me. Not even worth us squabbling over it. If the company wants it, I immediately get a red flag

Cyio

My guess is that it saves the company so much money that the pilot group would have to give up too much to go back. When I was at my lowly regional, whenever PBS was brought up it was something to the tune of 5 million in negotiating capital each year that we had to surrender to keep line bidding. I can't imagine what that number would be for one of the big 4.

Grishka

PBS is a tool. It's purpose is to utilize your individual seniority to the maxium as far as building a schedule that you want. Like any tool, if you understand how it works and use it properly it does and will work.

Your first preference line should be as specific as possible. (Example) 3 Day trips: weekends off: No DeadHeads: Report time 8 AM or Later: Release Time 2 PM or earlier: Credit 22 TFP or greater: JAX overnights: No night flights on a full moon: Ect.

Once the system arrives at your name it will build your month based on your first preference. Lets say there is only one trip availabe that meets the example above when it arrives at your name. You will be awarded that trip. Next the system will look at your second line preference. This is where you start dropping things that you don't absolutely prefer. Like the JAX overnights. The system will continue building your schedule until is has met the threshold for your month. You have to cascade your line preferences from most specific to least specific.

Those that don't understand how to bid using PBS might as well give the system a blank slate to build whatever it wants. And those people exist also. The key to PBS is to have as many line preferences as possible until all trips available for the month have been seqenced.

With that being said, PBS is also as effective as the parameters that the company sets. It is a program and will work as programed. This means that PBS has to have very clear and agreed to CBA language that covers every detail of it. Regionals abuse PBS by setting very restrictive parameters that benefit the company. This is why the union needs to have adequate control and oversight of what happens each month.

The big contention here at SWA is the vacation overlap rules that we have. Our current system is very inefficient for the company but suites us very well. PBS threatens this, and is exactly where the issue really is.

Someone earlier mentioned if vacation was overlapped onto your PBS awarded schedule after the fact, they would be on board. This would be a good option but the company would never agree to that because it is very costly for them and is inefficient.

I'm not arguing one way or the other. I just think that many here at southwest have never used PBS and dont fully understand how it works. We basically are already using PBS with apps like CrewBid. The difference is the lines are already built and in PBS the system would build your line...

Saying only top 15% will be benefited can be said about line bidding as well. How many lines do we have that are 3 day trips Tuesday through Thursday? You don't think that only the top 15 % can hold a line like that here? 17 year Captains here can't even hold weekends off.

You can still have elite and trip trading with PBS and maintain the same after award schedule flexabilty we are offered today. I'm just saying vacation and PBS are two different conversations. It's how you agree to using them together that really matters at the end of the day.

Feel free to attack now...