1,221 Reasons Not to work for Southwest
01-24-2023, 03:06 AM
#31
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2009
Posts: 609
I thought they were overbooking classes. They’re still missing their goals with overbooking?
01-24-2023, 03:20 AM
#32
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2019
Posts: 172
Hiring number howgozit:
Planned hiring for January: 212
Howgozit: 131
Unless they have a class of 81 waiting in the wings for the 31st of January, we are going to miss by a country mile, and that appears to even be a with a self-stated desire to overbook due to attrition. SWAPA has stated we have lost 10% of new hires in 2022. That does does not account for those who were called with the offer and declined…that’s a number we will never know, but it only compounds the truth of the matter. Extrapolated over 2023, this has us missing our numbers by a large margin that will not be able to be swept under the rug. I believe we will see a face saving maneuver of “recalibrating” those numbers very soon. Not because we cannot meet those numbers, you see, but because of reasons and stuff.
To potential new hires, understand: Any perceived benefit of SWA (and there certainly are some, I’m not scorched-earth on SWA) DEMANDS growth. Our very business model is built around needing to grow. If we cannot do that, the reasons to come dwindle. We have very very few retirements relative to others. If your career is to prosper, we MUST grow. At this point, we are not hitting our numbers, but wait for Jan 31st for the official howgozit postmortem.
Poopoo out.
Planned hiring for January: 212
Howgozit: 131
Unless they have a class of 81 waiting in the wings for the 31st of January, we are going to miss by a country mile, and that appears to even be a with a self-stated desire to overbook due to attrition. SWAPA has stated we have lost 10% of new hires in 2022. That does does not account for those who were called with the offer and declined…that’s a number we will never know, but it only compounds the truth of the matter. Extrapolated over 2023, this has us missing our numbers by a large margin that will not be able to be swept under the rug. I believe we will see a face saving maneuver of “recalibrating” those numbers very soon. Not because we cannot meet those numbers, you see, but because of reasons and stuff.
To potential new hires, understand: Any perceived benefit of SWA (and there certainly are some, I’m not scorched-earth on SWA) DEMANDS growth. Our very business model is built around needing to grow. If we cannot do that, the reasons to come dwindle. We have very very few retirements relative to others. If your career is to prosper, we MUST grow. At this point, we are not hitting our numbers, but wait for Jan 31st for the official howgozit postmortem.
Poopoo out.
01-24-2023, 05:40 AM
#34
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2010
Position: DOWNGRADE COMPLETE: Thanks Gary. Thanks SWAPA.
Posts: 6,770
Hiring number howgozit:
Planned hiring for January: 212
Howgozit: 131
Unless they have a class of 81 waiting in the wings for the 31st of January, we are going to miss by a country mile, and that appears to even be a with a self-stated desire to overbook due to attrition. SWAPA has stated we have lost 10% of new hires in 2022. That does does not account for those who were called with the offer and declined…that’s a number we will never know, but it only compounds the truth of the matter. Extrapolated over 2023, this has us missing our numbers by a large margin that will not be able to be swept under the rug. I believe we will see a face saving maneuver of “recalibrating” those numbers very soon. Not because we cannot meet those numbers, you see, but because of reasons and stuff.
To potential new hires, understand: Any perceived benefit of SWA (and there certainly are some, I’m not scorched-earth on SWA) DEMANDS growth. Our very business model is built around needing to grow. If we cannot do that, the reasons to come dwindle. We have very very few retirements relative to others. If your career is to prosper, we MUST grow. At this point, we are not hitting our numbers, but wait for Jan 31st for the official howgozit postmortem.
Poopoo out.
Planned hiring for January: 212
Howgozit: 131
Unless they have a class of 81 waiting in the wings for the 31st of January, we are going to miss by a country mile, and that appears to even be a with a self-stated desire to overbook due to attrition. SWAPA has stated we have lost 10% of new hires in 2022. That does does not account for those who were called with the offer and declined…that’s a number we will never know, but it only compounds the truth of the matter. Extrapolated over 2023, this has us missing our numbers by a large margin that will not be able to be swept under the rug. I believe we will see a face saving maneuver of “recalibrating” those numbers very soon. Not because we cannot meet those numbers, you see, but because of reasons and stuff.
To potential new hires, understand: Any perceived benefit of SWA (and there certainly are some, I’m not scorched-earth on SWA) DEMANDS growth. Our very business model is built around needing to grow. If we cannot do that, the reasons to come dwindle. We have very very few retirements relative to others. If your career is to prosper, we MUST grow. At this point, we are not hitting our numbers, but wait for Jan 31st for the official howgozit postmortem.
Poopoo out.
Say it with me: LEVERAGE
Unless they want to hire 1500 hour fresh ATPs eventually, they’ll need to sign a drastically improved contract to be able to staff the jets that are inbound.
01-24-2023, 06:18 AM
#35
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2017
Posts: 833
Again, wait until DLA and then subsequently UAL ink their new deals. Not only will NH classes miss their goals even more, but the amount of current seniority list pilots will bail to an even greater extent.
Say it with me: LEVERAGE
Unless they want to hire 1500 hour fresh ATPs eventually, they’ll need to sign a drastically improved contract to be able to staff the jets that are inbound.
Say it with me: LEVERAGE
Unless they want to hire 1500 hour fresh ATPs eventually, they’ll need to sign a drastically improved contract to be able to staff the jets that are inbound.
01-24-2023, 06:54 AM
#36
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2016
Position: Left
Posts: 1,253
Again, wait until DLA and then subsequently UAL ink their new deals. Not only will NH classes miss their goals even more, but the amount of current seniority list pilots will bail to an even greater extent.
Say it with me: LEVERAGE
Unless they want to hire 1500 hour fresh ATPs eventually, they’ll need to sign a drastically improved contract to be able to staff the jets that are inbound.
Say it with me: LEVERAGE
Unless they want to hire 1500 hour fresh ATPs eventually, they’ll need to sign a drastically improved contract to be able to staff the jets that are inbound.
01-24-2023, 07:53 AM
#37
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,170
I think Frontier and American are worse. Everywhere else seems to be better, including Spirit. So much wrong with SWA right now and not only are they perfectly happy with how things are, they're intentionally stiff-arming any external input because "we have the same data you do" (direct quote from leadership during recurrent training on 3 Jan 2021).
Anywhere but Frontier and American are better than this. 1 yr upgrades at both Delta and United, 7-figure career earnings deficit even for SWA FOs with 6-7 years on the list. And the company keeps doubling down on the stupidity, highlighted by the fact that Carl K is still heading SWA's negotiation team. How much more evidence does anyone need to see how bad of a choice this place is?
Anywhere but Frontier and American are better than this. 1 yr upgrades at both Delta and United, 7-figure career earnings deficit even for SWA FOs with 6-7 years on the list. And the company keeps doubling down on the stupidity, highlighted by the fact that Carl K is still heading SWA's negotiation team. How much more evidence does anyone need to see how bad of a choice this place is?
Frontier, sure.
01-24-2023, 09:01 AM
#38
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2018
Posts: 1,264
Again, wait until DLA and then subsequently UAL ink their new deals. Not only will NH classes miss their goals even more, but the amount of current seniority list pilots will bail to an even greater extent.
Say it with me: LEVERAGE
Unless they want to hire 1500 hour fresh ATPs eventually, they’ll need to sign a drastically improved contract to be able to staff the jets that are inbound.
Say it with me: LEVERAGE
Unless they want to hire 1500 hour fresh ATPs eventually, they’ll need to sign a drastically improved contract to be able to staff the jets that are inbound.
IMO, the company doesn’t care a whole lot who they’re hiring as long as they can fog a mirror and meet the FAA’s requirements. In fact, the less qualified they are, the better, because those sorts of people feel a bit beholden to the company. A certain former SWA-focused hiring consultant (RB) called it “desperation hiring” and said SWA specialized in it. So, my perspective is that the company has zero problem scraping the bottom of the barrel. They’ll find enough people to fill the seats needed to sort of keep up with retirements and attrition - at least enough to be able to define it in their corporate-speakish, twisted way as “keeping up.”
BUT!
The real leverage comes from accentuating our ability to pose the credible threat of a legal strike. Historically, one of the most powerful counters to the threat of a strike that airline management has been able to wield is to menace pilots with the possibility of hiring scabs.
Given the dynamics right now of the pilot hiring market, I’d say the threat to us posed by scabs is at a nadir. It doesn’t exist. IMHO, there is almost zero chance the company could hire and train enough scabs to be able to run enough of an operation to make a difference in the face of a SWAPA strike. The company is effectively neutered (though they’d never admit it). Neutralizing the hazard posed by scabs is LEVERAGE. Lots of leverage.
01-24-2023, 09:10 AM
#39
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2013
Posts: 3,638
It IS leverage but not so much in the way you’re suggesting it is.
IMO, the company doesn’t care a whole lot who they’re hiring as long as they can fog a mirror and meet the FAA’s requirements. In fact, the less qualified they are, the better, because those sorts of people feel a bit beholden to the company. A certain former SWA-focused hiring consultant (RB) called it “desperation hiring” and said SWA specialized in it. So, my perspective is that the company has zero problem scraping the bottom of the barrel. They’ll find enough people to fill the seats needed to sort of keep up with retirements and attrition - at least enough to be able to define it in their corporate-speakish, twisted way as “keeping up.”
BUT!
The real leverage comes from accentuating our ability to pose the credible threat of a legal strike. Historically, one of the most powerful counters to the threat of a strike that airline management has been able to wield is to menace pilots with the possibility of hiring scabs.
Given the dynamics right now of the pilot hiring market, I’d say the threat to us posed by scabs is at a nadir. It doesn’t exist. IMHO, there is almost zero chance the company could hire and train enough scabs to be able to run enough of an operation to make a difference in the face of a SWAPA strike. The company is effectively neutered (though they’d never admit it). Neutralizing the hazard posed by scabs is LEVERAGE. Lots of leverage.
IMO, the company doesn’t care a whole lot who they’re hiring as long as they can fog a mirror and meet the FAA’s requirements. In fact, the less qualified they are, the better, because those sorts of people feel a bit beholden to the company. A certain former SWA-focused hiring consultant (RB) called it “desperation hiring” and said SWA specialized in it. So, my perspective is that the company has zero problem scraping the bottom of the barrel. They’ll find enough people to fill the seats needed to sort of keep up with retirements and attrition - at least enough to be able to define it in their corporate-speakish, twisted way as “keeping up.”
BUT!
The real leverage comes from accentuating our ability to pose the credible threat of a legal strike. Historically, one of the most powerful counters to the threat of a strike that airline management has been able to wield is to menace pilots with the possibility of hiring scabs.
Given the dynamics right now of the pilot hiring market, I’d say the threat to us posed by scabs is at a nadir. It doesn’t exist. IMHO, there is almost zero chance the company could hire and train enough scabs to be able to run enough of an operation to make a difference in the face of a SWAPA strike. The company is effectively neutered (though they’d never admit it). Neutralizing the hazard posed by scabs is LEVERAGE. Lots of leverage.
Keep your eyes on the prize. Hiring is a specifically company problem that they are going to manage or not manage. Since there is little to no transparency on hiring goals and progress, we need to concentrate on what we can control, which is navigating the RLA to bring it to one of its two logical conclusions. The quicker we do that, the quicker we will have an offer on the table to either vote for or vote down.
Hope is not a strategy, and hoping that we lose a bunch of new hires to other places is a terrible way to establish leverage since it’s largely out of our control.
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