jetset

Absolute YES for SAV. Not opposed to industry leading pay benefits etc. Why would I be?

But according to you we will never get there and you are attacking your fellow pilots saying they are the reason. You are making anyone who tries to input real world examples as a straw man and assuming they are no on the SAV etc. You continue to contradict yourself and then spew RLA information that you claim none of us are aware of. You have put charts up that support the ONLY way to a leading contract is to get to a release but then you say that will never happen because of your fellow pilots. I’d like to think we we are on the same team but all you’ve done is tell us we aren’t. So what is your solution? I have emailed reps and the NC, I stay informed and wear the lanyard and the new ID cover. I WILL vote yes on the SAV obviously, and I trust the NC to use the data we gave them and get the industry leading contract we are fighting for.

waterskisabersw

Wow.

The problem we have here is unfortunately one that is difficult to overcome with simply more "RLA Education". I agree the education coming out has been far from perfect, but when there are large tracts of people who are willing to settle for what amounts to barely a 10% rate increase for pilots who fly 30% more than their peers during the hottest pilot labor market in over half a century, what are we as a pilot group to do?

I fly with guys who think SWAPA is being too militant, is beating us over the head with too much RLA talk, and bringing up the SAV vote timeline too much ("We get it! The vote is May 1! Stop sending us reminders every day!"). I also fly with guys who don't know what SAV stands for, don't know when the vote is, are adamant that the president won't allow us to strike, and think anybody who would vote no on a 35% pay raise is a greedy idiot. And still further, I fly with guys who think SWAPA are idiots for waiting so long for the SAV.

Those opinions still stand after 3 days of flying with them, despite constant attempts on my part to show them the hard data, case law, precedent, logic, and simple self worth.

Like I said, I don't think the education coming out is anywhere near perfect, but what is SWAPA to do? There's a group of pilots here that aren't simply horses that have to be led to the water: they're quadriplegic horses with no neck who have been over eating for years in the middle of the Sahara and will revolt if touched in any way, especially if you even mention the word water.

Unfortunately we as SWA pilots get a union that has to deal with this pilot group as a whole. Do they sacrifice XX% of the SAV vote or turnout in order to get the average militancy of the group as high as possible, or do they try to maximize the turnout and percentage by using a light touch to get the brain dead family guy horses over the finish line?

Ultimately a union is only as good as its membership. SWAPA can only act within the wheel house of the unity of its pilot group, so what can they do since we can't even get every single pilot to go through the onerous process of... putting on a lanyard?

SlipKid

He's 100% correct.

THE reason that our contracts are always so far behind the industry is because this pilot group always accepts less.

I will say that nowadays, there is noticeably less push back from the "just happy to be here" set, but there is still too much of it out there. I have noticed that most folks are sporting the lanyard, which is a good sign, but ultimately, the SAV vote results will be telling. I hope we're not shooting ourselves in the foot with the SAV, because there are still a lot of Kool Aid stirrers amongst us.

Lot of folks still claim that it's "easy" to average enough TFP per month to exceed what their buddies are making at the legacies, which is simply not true, especially as you (and they) get more senior.

Of course, if they even mention the rest of the industry average, ancillary stuff that we don't get, they'll say that they'd rather have higher pay, and pay for that stuff out of pocket. Then they invariably vote YES! for industry lagging pay rates. Rinse and repeat.

We are our own worst enemies around here.

mulcher

I agree with this. YOLO! Never get too busy making a living that you forget to make a life.

hoover

That podcast that swapa put out about the history of the union, 45, I believe was the title. Was eye opening. If I remember correctly I think it wasn't until contract 2012, whichbwas ratified in 2016 and after a failed and horrible TA1 that this membership actually got some gains. There was several contracts where the membership voted for a pay freeze several times in a row.
so indeed why those who have been here longer than 10 yrs are worried about the membership. Hopefully those people and mindset of who voted such crappy contracts in have left

Lewbronski

Waterski,

I definitely respect and value your perspective.

I agree with most of what you laid out here.

But I will say that I think SWAPA’s RLA education could and should be much better. While I have flown with a couple of guys whose minds could not be changed, I have flown with more who, after I’ve run through the RLA evidence over the course of a pairing respond more like, “Holy sh**. I had no idea.” Of course, maybe they’re just saying that but that hasn’t been the vibe I got from them.

OTOH, I’ve been shocked with the lack of interest
in how far behind we are in terms of earnings over any meaningful length of time. The response I’ve gotten from guys I’ve flown with mirrors almost exactly what happened to the compensation comparison thread OTOF. Literally, NO ONE has cared that we are $1.3M behind after 8 years, $6.5M behind after 30 years, and millions behind even if SWA goes to a 6-month upgrade and DL goes to a 7-year upgrade. From my perspective, these facts are highly motivating.

But, I appear to be a major anomaly on this subject, which is mind-boggling to me. At SWA, we have guys tripping over themselves to work 200 TFP/mo, but they’re not interested in the slightest bit in earning enough money per TFP that they might not feel as much of a need to work 200 TFP/mo or make way more per month if they do work 200 TFP. I have no idea how to make the pilot group interested in achieving industry-leading career compensation. It seems like something they’d naturally be interested in. But clearly, there’s something I’m not getting.

Maybe guys are interested in the RLA info because SWAPA has talked about it and attempted to educate on it while SWAPA has not really addressed the subject of the disparity in career compensation at all (except for Casey’s latest message about the first year DL pilot making more than any SWA pilot). I don’t know. It’s baffling to me.

So, ya, I agree with you to a large degree: what are we supposed to do about pilots who don’t seem to care and can’t be convinced to care that we work 30% more block hours than pilots at OAL’s for drastically less career compensation? You’re right about your analogy of the horse in the Sahara. Even if a significant segment of the pilot group can be convinced that the RLA can be used as leverage, if that knowledge is only going to result in another lagging contract because a large chunk of the pilot group doesn’t care about demanding an industry-leading contract, what good does it do?

Lewbronski

Yup! Some people recoil at hearing stuff like this. But it’s simply true. If our pilot group was scored on its ability to accept less via feats of mental gymnastics, we would get perfect 10’s across the board.

Grease5667

One step at a time. Let’s get the SAV done. I agree more education needs to follow. There are some at every airline I’ve been at that can never be reached. After the vote closes, the heat will get turned up significantly higher. In terms of why anyone would come here right now….I have no idea.. unless you live in a base where DL, UA, etc.,.don’t have one…then I don’t know. This will get much uglier. Just read the SWAPA negotiating updates. They are giving us middle fingers at every turn. It’s going to get very unpleasant. And, I’m just fine with that.

ZapBrannigan

Wish they had done the SAV in January or February so we could’ve conducted informational pickets in the cooler Spring weather as opposed to the dog days of summer. 🥵 Not looking forward to Texas pickets in 100 degree temps and 100% humidity again.

nene

Just change your picketing to your northernmost stations. 😊