1,221 Reasons Not to work for Southwest
03-24-2023, 08:16 AM
#303
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2015
Posts: 772
During Covid YES, SWA was the only one to threaten a furlough, and the only one to send letters, thus the infamous 1221. The other airlines (DAL, AA, UAL) worked with the unions to reduce guarantee and keep all pilots on board while the situation worked itself out. THERE WERE NO FURLOUGHS AT THE BIG THREE, nor were any furlough letters sent out! SWA also threatened their pilots with termination unless they were vaccinated while, DAL simply asked that you pay $200.00 per month to help cover the increased cost of medical care due to covid. These are the two things that Gary Kelly and Bob Jordan will never be forgiven for, and it will never be forgotten by the line pilots. EVER.
Give me a break.
Give me a break.
03-24-2023, 05:18 PM
#304
Line Holder
Joined APC: Dec 2016
Posts: 60
I mean, it’s at least a little funny that “Southwest exceptionalism” also applies to the crowd who thinks we received exceptionally crappy treatment from management. We’re better but no better than everywhere else, and worse but no worse.
03-25-2023, 06:08 AM
#305
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2017
Posts: 291
Originally Posted by IA Moose;[url=tel:3613171
3613171[/url]]I mean, it’s at least a little funny that “Southwest exceptionalism” also applies to the crowd who thinks we received exceptionally crappy treatment from management. We’re better but no better than everywhere else, and worse but no worse.
Then the warn notices came because the company wanted a 10% concession (supposedly). (Also, remember how we were being paid slightly less per hour for a 737? Also, crew meals, uniforms, parking, disability, etc etc.) This all came after SWAPA made several deals to help. Also, it’s despite the fact they would’ve maybe stayed in business an extra couple months in total (with all the work groups) at the burn rate of that time. In other words, what they were asking for would have done very little to keep us in business.
SWAPA tried to play ball by being creative to get the company to its 10% goal instead of a permanent pay cut. However, the company wanted to stuff some force majeur language into the contract and wasn’t interested in workable solutions. Because the unsettled list of grievances was a mile long and previous actions, the company would not be trusted with force majeure language. In summary, the “deal” was broken over 10% (kinda) and force majeure language.
03-26-2023, 05:45 PM
#306
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2009
Posts: 622
A large part of the “deal” for me coming to SWA was the no furlough situation. In exchange I most likely will not fly a wide body, I’d be paid slightly less per hour in comparison to 737 pay rates (doing our part for the hard times), and I’d wait a long time for an upgrade for which I’ll have to commute to reserve. Ok, it’s a deal.
Then the warn notices came because the company wanted a 10% concession (supposedly). (Also, remember how we were being paid slightly less per hour for a 737? Also, crew meals, uniforms, parking, disability, etc etc.) This all came after SWAPA made several deals to help. Also, it’s despite the fact they would’ve maybe stayed in business an extra couple months in total (with all the work groups) at the burn rate of that time. In other words, what they were asking for would have done very little to keep us in business.
SWAPA tried to play ball by being creative to get the company to its 10% goal instead of a permanent pay cut. However, the company wanted to stuff some force majeur language into the contract and wasn’t interested in workable solutions. Because the unsettled list of grievances was a mile long and previous actions, the company would not be trusted with force majeure language. In summary, the “deal” was broken over 10% (kinda) and force majeure language.
Then the warn notices came because the company wanted a 10% concession (supposedly). (Also, remember how we were being paid slightly less per hour for a 737? Also, crew meals, uniforms, parking, disability, etc etc.) This all came after SWAPA made several deals to help. Also, it’s despite the fact they would’ve maybe stayed in business an extra couple months in total (with all the work groups) at the burn rate of that time. In other words, what they were asking for would have done very little to keep us in business.
SWAPA tried to play ball by being creative to get the company to its 10% goal instead of a permanent pay cut. However, the company wanted to stuff some force majeur language into the contract and wasn’t interested in workable solutions. Because the unsettled list of grievances was a mile long and previous actions, the company would not be trusted with force majeure language. In summary, the “deal” was broken over 10% (kinda) and force majeure language.
filler
03-26-2023, 07:52 PM
#307
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2013
Posts: 3,720
A large part of the “deal” for me coming to SWA was the no furlough situation. In exchange I most likely will not fly a wide body, I’d be paid slightly less per hour in comparison to 737 pay rates (doing our part for the hard times), and I’d wait a long time for an upgrade for which I’ll have to commute to reserve. Ok, it’s a deal.
Then the warn notices came because the company wanted a 10% concession (supposedly). (Also, remember how we were being paid slightly less per hour for a 737? Also, crew meals, uniforms, parking, disability, etc etc.) This all came after SWAPA made several deals to help. Also, it’s despite the fact they would’ve maybe stayed in business an extra couple months in total (with all the work groups) at the burn rate of that time. In other words, what they were asking for would have done very little to keep us in business.
SWAPA tried to play ball by being creative to get the company to its 10% goal instead of a permanent pay cut. However, the company wanted to stuff some force majeur language into the contract and wasn’t interested in workable solutions. Because the unsettled list of grievances was a mile long and previous actions, the company would not be trusted with force majeure language. In summary, the “deal” was broken over 10% (kinda) and force majeure language.
Then the warn notices came because the company wanted a 10% concession (supposedly). (Also, remember how we were being paid slightly less per hour for a 737? Also, crew meals, uniforms, parking, disability, etc etc.) This all came after SWAPA made several deals to help. Also, it’s despite the fact they would’ve maybe stayed in business an extra couple months in total (with all the work groups) at the burn rate of that time. In other words, what they were asking for would have done very little to keep us in business.
SWAPA tried to play ball by being creative to get the company to its 10% goal instead of a permanent pay cut. However, the company wanted to stuff some force majeur language into the contract and wasn’t interested in workable solutions. Because the unsettled list of grievances was a mile long and previous actions, the company would not be trusted with force majeure language. In summary, the “deal” was broken over 10% (kinda) and force majeure language.
It is strictly business now. My goal is to get the most money out of this place for the least amount of effort. I am going to give them my best when I am here turning a wheel, but I expect to be well compensated for that. All the things we have given up in the past because we are "special" are now expected as a cost of doing business. Our career compensation should lead the industry as should our scheduling and work rules. It's amazing how well a group of employees perform when they feel valued. Conversely, it's amazing how detrimental to an operation an angry group of employees can be.
We are getting to the point when our union leaders are throwing around the word "impasse". I am prepared to take this the distance, as should every pilot here.
03-27-2023, 06:52 AM
#308
Gets Weekend Reserve
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,794
A large part of the “deal” for me coming to SWA was the no furlough situation. In exchange I most likely will not fly a wide body, I’d be paid slightly less per hour in comparison to 737 pay rates (doing our part for the hard times), and I’d wait a long time for an upgrade for which I’ll have to commute to reserve. Ok, it’s a deal.
Then the warn notices came because the company wanted a 10% concession (supposedly). (Also, remember how we were being paid slightly less per hour for a 737? Also, crew meals, uniforms, parking, disability, etc etc.) This all came after SWAPA made several deals to help. Also, it’s despite the fact they would’ve maybe stayed in business an extra couplemonths days in total (with all the work groups) at the burn rate of that time. In other words, what they were asking for would have done very little to keep us in business.
SWAPA tried to play ball by being creative to get the company to its 10% goal instead of a permanent pay cut. However, the company wanted to stuff some force majeur language into the contract and wasn’t interested in workable solutions. Because the unsettled list of grievances was a mile long and previous actions, the company would not be trusted with force majeure language. In summary, the “deal” was broken over 10% (kinda) and force majeure language.
Then the warn notices came because the company wanted a 10% concession (supposedly). (Also, remember how we were being paid slightly less per hour for a 737? Also, crew meals, uniforms, parking, disability, etc etc.) This all came after SWAPA made several deals to help. Also, it’s despite the fact they would’ve maybe stayed in business an extra couple
SWAPA tried to play ball by being creative to get the company to its 10% goal instead of a permanent pay cut. However, the company wanted to stuff some force majeur language into the contract and wasn’t interested in workable solutions. Because the unsettled list of grievances was a mile long and previous actions, the company would not be trusted with force majeure language. In summary, the “deal” was broken over 10% (kinda) and force majeure language.
03-30-2023, 05:41 AM
#309
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2020
Posts: 1,920
A large part of the “deal” for me coming to SWA was the no furlough situation. In exchange I most likely will not fly a wide body, I’d be paid slightly less per hour in comparison to 737 pay rates (doing our part for the hard times), and I’d wait a long time for an upgrade for which I’ll have to commute to reserve. Ok, it’s a deal.
Then the warn notices came because the company wanted a 10% concession (supposedly). (Also, remember how we were being paid slightly less per hour for a 737? Also, crew meals, uniforms, parking, disability, etc etc.) This all came after SWAPA made several deals to help. Also, it’s despite the fact they would’ve maybe stayed in business an extra couple months in total (with all the work groups) at the burn rate of that time. In other words, what they were asking for would have done very little to keep us in business.
SWAPA tried to play ball by being creative to get the company to its 10% goal instead of a permanent pay cut. However, the company wanted to stuff some force majeur language into the contract and wasn’t interested in workable solutions. Because the unsettled list of grievances was a mile long and previous actions, the company would not be trusted with force majeure language. In summary, the “deal” was broken over 10% (kinda) and force majeure language.
Then the warn notices came because the company wanted a 10% concession (supposedly). (Also, remember how we were being paid slightly less per hour for a 737? Also, crew meals, uniforms, parking, disability, etc etc.) This all came after SWAPA made several deals to help. Also, it’s despite the fact they would’ve maybe stayed in business an extra couple months in total (with all the work groups) at the burn rate of that time. In other words, what they were asking for would have done very little to keep us in business.
SWAPA tried to play ball by being creative to get the company to its 10% goal instead of a permanent pay cut. However, the company wanted to stuff some force majeur language into the contract and wasn’t interested in workable solutions. Because the unsettled list of grievances was a mile long and previous actions, the company would not be trusted with force majeure language. In summary, the “deal” was broken over 10% (kinda) and force majeure language.
Delta didn't furlough a single person their first 68yrs of existence! That's a lot of careers where they told pilots "hey we never furloughed". Once a company reaches a major size though, if money is flowing out the door, it will lop off excess to save the beast. "No furlough" was a function of growing and demographics, to think it's an enduring corporate culture is living in a pollyanna.
In 2000 Delta signed a new contract that actually had a "no furlough" clause in it, that lasted almost 6months until they furloughed.
I hope everyone hired everywhere has a long enduring career, free of furloughs or downturns, but history shows that there will be spurts of trouble, down times where people just stop traveling for periods of time, and the companies have to respond to the immediate lack of demand. Unfortunately it's a part of this (and just about every other) career except maybe working for the government. There you really do accept lower than market wages for a job that is basically cemented into existence for life.
03-30-2023, 07:48 AM
#310
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2017
Posts: 3,792
Hey, nearly every airline that survives it's first few years doesn't furlough until they do.
Delta didn't furlough a single person their first 68yrs of existence! That's a lot of careers where they told pilots "hey we never furloughed". Once a company reaches a major size though, if money is flowing out the door, it will lop off excess to save the beast. "No furlough" was a function of growing and demographics, to think it's an enduring corporate culture is living in a pollyanna.
In 2000 Delta signed a new contract that actually had a "no furlough" clause in it, that lasted almost 6months until they furloughed.
I hope everyone hired everywhere has a long enduring career, free of furloughs or downturns, but history shows that there will be spurts of trouble, down times where people just stop traveling for periods of time, and the companies have to respond to the immediate lack of demand. Unfortunately it's a part of this (and just about every other) career except maybe working for the government. There you really do accept lower than market wages for a job that is basically cemented into existence for life.
Delta didn't furlough a single person their first 68yrs of existence! That's a lot of careers where they told pilots "hey we never furloughed". Once a company reaches a major size though, if money is flowing out the door, it will lop off excess to save the beast. "No furlough" was a function of growing and demographics, to think it's an enduring corporate culture is living in a pollyanna.
In 2000 Delta signed a new contract that actually had a "no furlough" clause in it, that lasted almost 6months until they furloughed.
I hope everyone hired everywhere has a long enduring career, free of furloughs or downturns, but history shows that there will be spurts of trouble, down times where people just stop traveling for periods of time, and the companies have to respond to the immediate lack of demand. Unfortunately it's a part of this (and just about every other) career except maybe working for the government. There you really do accept lower than market wages for a job that is basically cemented into existence for life.
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