Busch

I hope you’re not right and hope guys would be a little more diligent about a contract that we are going to have to live under for nearly a decade. Whether you’re a yes or no is up to you, but the devil is in the details and there is a lot left to be desired after digesting this TA. One would think that after all the drum pounding by SWAPA that there would be more to be excited about. Yes, a lot of changes for the good but a majority of it has been industry standard and we are just now meeting that mark with this TA. It might be industry leading in some regards but not by the margin that I think most of us hoped.

~Vote No TA Uno~

Salukidawg

You'll be watching alone then since it's not until tomorrow night.

e6bpilot

Oops. Read that one wrong. Thanks for the correction. Tomorrow night. Still won't be there but will be watching.

mulcher

He probably is correct. Then they will say when did that change, how can they do that? It happens every time.

Cyio

This may have been true in the past and potentially still is however it seems at least from my anecdotal observations people are picking it apart and reading it.

I know I have and I think it’s in a good spot. If this gets voted down it’s my belief we are in for a long wait.

Lewbronski

Can you define "long wait"? Can you go into detail on what would occur if we did vote this TA down? How certain are you that it would actually occur that way? What do you expect we could achieve after a "long wait"?

And, to make a reductio ad absurdum argument, if did have to endure a "long wait" (whatever that means - let's say it's one year), if we did achieve, for example, $615/TFP DOS 12-yr CA rate, 5 weeks of vacation, substantially better benefits, better work rules, better retro, etc than are in the current TA, would it be worth it?

golfandflows

$615 TFP " for example"? We are in wonder land dream world now. Whats more likely if we turn it down? 615 tfp or a few bucks more extra on the TA rates? The latter is far more likely. And at the expense of delaying implementation and not getting any extra freebies in the other sections of the TA. You would never recover the lost pay from waiting for TA2 either. Just a little more retro .

ZapBrannigan

Incidentally the implementation podcast was very good. Listened to it on my drive home from work. I had forgotten that even with manual processes the entire cadre of schedulers would need to be trained on changes before they flip the switch.

flyguy81

And they said that while IT is already starting to work on things in anticipation of ratification, the company is under no obligation to do so and there a lot of fixes that need done.

Lewbronski

To be charitable to you, I'll assume you didn't see the part where I said, "to make a reductio ad absurdum argument," or maybe you that you don't know what that means. Here's a YouTube video that explains it:



To address the rest of your argument, though, you pose it in terms of a false dilemma. The choices you lay out for us are: A) "$615 tfp," or B) "a few bucks more extra," as if those are the only two possible outcomes. You fail to offer the possibility that there are a whole range of intermediate outcomes. That is logically fallacious.

You also suggest without any evidence that if we voted down the TA we wouldn't get "any extra freebies in other sections of the TA." You then go on to suggest, again without any evidence, that we "would never recover the lost pay from waiting for TA2."

Can you please provide evidence for your assertions?