mulcher

Dont worry. It’s not a concession. Just don’t bid those lines. Plenty will want them.

RJSAviator76

In every single one, depending on where one lives. Actually, according to SWAPA, there are about 300 people in each base who definitely live closer to a co-terminal than to a base. Then you have equidistant people, and then you have some whose drive may be marginally farther who aren't included in this number, and then you have those who like you who live farther.

And why would you be forced fly out of a co-terminal for the rest of your career unless it was made a base? Plenty of those who live closer to the co-terminal who will happily take your place and bid co-domicile flying. Also, plenty of commuters who will also bid co-terminal flying because their commute gets way easier going into a co-terminal major airport than an airport where SWA is the only game in town.

In other words, if you want nothing to do with it, you'd have nothing to do with it because plenty would bid for it. If you're on reserve, unlike at OAL's, here you'll get your transport to/from covered and that's even if you choose to proffer for co-terminal trips and not just MDW ones.

RJSAviator76

I really have to see some math. For all the squawking about co-terminals being a concession, notice not one of our concession-shouting genius brethren, not one is squawking about LCO and loss of move-up as a concession.

Things that make you go hmmm....

Grumpyaviator

I think LCO includes move up, not eliminate it. Every change to your schedule pays 1.5-2X depending on the situation. If you show up and there’s a change to your trip, every leg that was changed pays LCO, just like a move up day. It seems the pay is still there, the name has just changed. The fact the company didn’t want it and every other union fought for it is a good selling point.

from BPFS;

”The Leg Change Override (LCO) proposal pays premium and double time as an override for every leg that’s different from your original assignment. This is meant to penalize the bait-and-switch while also ensuring pay is added over and above your original trip credit if you end up flying something different than you originally bid, thus eliminating a reassignment premium pay from being absorbed by trip rig. ”

ElonMusk

[QUOTE=RJSAviator76;3721428]I really have to see some math. For all the squawking about co-terminals being a concession, notice not one of our concession-shouting genius brethren, not one is squawking about LCO and loss of move-up as a concession.

Things that make you go hmmm....[/QUOTE

Co basing causes an emotional response. It’s the simple thought of having to drive by DAL to go to DFW that will be a challenge to overcome.

LCO is simple math and requires rational thought processes. I haven’t seen the math but I can assume LCO will be better for the collective while move up may be better for individuals. But that is a simple math choice. We need to see the numbers on that one to decide one way or another.

waterskisabersw

the singular incident where LCO pays less is a move up due to a deadhead to catch up to the rest of your originally scheduled day.

If you had a day worth 6tfp, but you were rerouted to AUS the night before with a deadhead to rejoin your trip that morning, under DRP (which included move up) would have been somewhere around 10-11 tfp. With LCO, your pay would be somewhere around 7-8 tfp. Obviously with longer legs the difference is higher (10tfp day would be around 16-17tfp under DRP, 11-12tfp under LCO).

But that's the only time you lose money on LCO, and even under DRP, you would probably not make more money if you were on some sort of a rigged day/trip. Only originally scheduled monster days are the real loss.

Swapa ran a couple months of pairing data and it worked out to around 33-50% more money averaged out over all, but they did acknowledge the part about monster move ups being less. Of course the company could change its behavior on how it treats reroutes, and who knows how that would turn out. But that can be said about every change to a contract, from rigs to Co terminals to pay rates.

hoover

probably because LCO is in the flight plan, has been polled, educated, and polled again after the group was able to make inputs. Co domiciles were not. That's why people are upset. Because they didnt get a say.

On to LCO-
As a group it will be better. Just eliminating changes absorb by the rig is good. Sure you wont get move up for the whole day if only one leg is changed in the beginning but at least it will be on top of rig.
I fly mostly premium. I constantly get re routed for no additional pay because the rig is so high. This will greatly reduce the reroutes or actually pay more.
I think we'll all have more consistent pay increases with LCO. We wont get the unicorn move up pay for the whole day tho. I probably only get 1 move up every 6 months and I try to fly more PMs.
I do, however, get rerouted into later end times or longer days with no extra pay. This would either lay or stop that.
LCO will cause a lot of pay errors and grievances in the beginning as I do not think scheduling will be able to figure it out. Hopefully swapa's payroll calculator will have this feature included.
I'm not sold on LCO but I think itll be a good thing. Have to research it more.

Cyio

It will certainly help with those 12 tfp trips with one leg and a dh turning into 4 legs and an overnight. I stopped bidding that crap because scheduling messes with me every single time. I want to fly what I bid, that's why I bid it. They shouldn't be able to turn me into a online reserve pilot.

RJSAviator76

Hoover... yes, the devil is in details. See Waterski's post.... good explanation of how LCO may come up short to DRP. That's the million dollar question... how does LCO vs. DRP affect Scheduling's approach to reroutes?

The company will definitely seek the appearance of the cheaper solution, at least on paper. These geniuses think STC and DH inflation is cheaper than assigning premium. I made way more money taking advantage of that stupidity than I would have had they just awarded the original trip premium. But some GO bean counter is probably happy because "no premium."

This is where I'd like to see people shoot specific holes through this concept and see if it withstands scrutiny.

ZapBrannigan

Just a related anecdote. I commuted from DFW to PHX for about 9 months. The number of times I commuted on SWA metal was about twice.

DFW offered almost 30 flights a day on three airlines (4 if you counted one daily nonstop on UPS that I LOVED). I was almost always treated BETTER offline than online. When I wasn't on UPS (which was the gold standard) I was either in first class, an exit row, or in the case of Spirit, the "Big Front Seat". If I did end up in the cockpit, at least it was an Airbus. Considerably more comfortable.

I suspect coterminals would be very popular with commuters who are comfortable riding offline. It just opens up so many more options.

I acknowledge that my experience is only one anecdote and everybody will have their reasons why it would or would not work for them.