Originally Posted by Profane Kahuna

Yes my mind is made up to call out anyone selling a turd.

Especially when they tell anyone opposed to the company’s offer that they need to stop, or take a break, etc. Every pilot has the right to call a turd a turd.

There are no straw men here. Everything in my list comes from a claim or a promise that a yessie made in this thread.

I can’t believe people are ready to pledge a yes vote to this concession without waiting for the language. Somethings smells rotten.



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Originally Posted by Cyio

So this post alone, mainly the last part proves you’re an idiot or a troll. I think everyone has said let’s wait for the language.

Originally Posted by Profane Kahuna

So when you say “wait for the language” before I vote no….it’s ok.

But when I say “wait for the language” before you vote yes…. I’m an idiot or a troll?


Sounds hypocritical……


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Originally Posted by ElonMusk

A contract is a negotiation and while we have all the leverage we could ever want I also understand you sometimes have to change certain items to get other items from the company.

Originally Posted by RJSAviator76

Both the union and the company mentioned that proffering has been agreed to. I know that OAL's rely predominately on proffering for their co-terminal bidding and reserve and while they have paid parking at co-terminals, they don't offer their reserves transportation to/from co-terminals - it's on the reserve themselves, and that's where we top them (reserve) as our transport to/from the co-terminal will be covered by the company.

I don't think this will be nearly as complicated. From what I've read, in your bid packet, you'll see which lines are co-terminal lines, kinda like checking off ETOPS now. That's how you'll bid it, except the whole line will be pure co-terminal or pure regular base. And just like with ETOPS and how you can ELITT into or out of an ETOPS trip, you should be able to do the same with co-terminal flying. If you want to fly a mix of co-terminal vs. not, or just stick with co-terminal, or just stick with original base flying, you should be able to get what you want. From talking with my friends, generally, they seem to have substantially more trips in OT that are in original base than at co-terminal. My AA friend showed me LAX 737 open time (their version of our ELITT).... there was over 30 open trips in November for LAX proper, only 2 for SNA and 0 for SAN. Apparently, that's very common as co-terminal flying gets snatched up first. In our case, it really wouldn't surprise me at all if the co-terminal flying ended up being like ETOPS flying.... good luck seeing any in ELITT beyond maybe the first minute or in TTGA. Between the locals snatching it up and the commuters who may have a much easier commute to the big airport than ours.... good luck getting one. I do think the co-terminals will be great for TTGA - trading or giving away.

Originally Posted by Profane Kahuna

No. This is not the time for weakness and concessions.

Massive pilot shortages, regionals going out of business due to lack of pilots, United hiring direct entry captains…..

NO CONCESSIONS!


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Originally Posted by ElonMusk

I agree and have not seen a concession yet…

Adding co bases contrary to your belief is not a concession any more than changing STD/LTD language. It’s a rewrite. It’s no more a concession that getting maternity leave added. Maternity leave doesn’t influence but a small percentage of the pilot group yet negotiating capital was “wasted” on it. Is that a concession? Move up pay may be going away and replaced with something else, is that a concession in your mind? Never mind the math shows as a collective we will make more money.

Stop thinking like a buggy manufacturer at the dawn of the auto age. Adapt or die, evolution is a wonderful thing.

Originally Posted by ElonMusk

Thats not exactly what you posted. So that is disingenuous to put that in quotes….

In addition I don’t believe anyone has pledged to vote yes, your words not mine. I lean one way but have stated before I will take the language, when it comes out, to decide one way or another. I also rate the TA on its entirety and not just on one part so to say the entire TA is a no because I may or may not like a specific part….thats just not right.

A contract is a negotiation and while we have all the leverage we could ever want I also understand you sometimes have to change certain items to get other items from the company.

Originally Posted by ElonMusk

I agree and have not seen a concession yet…

Adding co bases contrary to your belief is not a concession any more than changing STD/LTD language. It’s a rewrite. It’s no more a concession that getting maternity leave added. Maternity leave doesn’t influence but a small percentage of the pilot group yet negotiating capital was “wasted” on it. Is that a concession? Move up pay may be going away and replaced with something else, is that a concession in your mind? Never mind the math shows as a collective we will make more money.

Stop thinking like a buggy manufacturer at the dawn of the auto age. Adapt or die, evolution is a wonderful thing.