1,221 Reasons Not to work for Southwest
11-06-2023, 05:14 AM
#1582
At your mom's house
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: cpt 737
Posts: 2,797
11-06-2023, 05:25 AM
#1583
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2022
Posts: 195
ROTFLMAO. Sure hope that was satire.
Upgrades go junior at other airlines because other airlines have real airplanes for an FO to hang out in. Let’s see here, make 27K a month as a WB FO working 3 trips a month or make 30K a month flying a guppy working 5 trips a month. Singapore RON or Midland RON…..hmmmmmm
We will not even touch the reserves rules at most other airlines. I can guarantee you one thing, covering several airports does not once enter into the discussion of taking an upgrade. Met a United pilot neat me that enjoys covering all the Bay Area bases, he grabs a co base and gets to park his airplane for free at the local FBO as United covers the cost. He avoids the traffic and cuts the time to commute in half.
This will go to a vote and I guarantee you this, you will lose as the upside is better than the potential drawbacks. Sometimes people need to be dragged into the new age.
11-06-2023, 06:08 AM
#1584
Gets Weekend Reserve
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,764
ROTFLMAO. Sure hope that was satire.
Upgrades go junior at other airlines because other airlines have real airplanes for an FO to hang out in. Let’s see here, make 27K a month as a WB FO working 3 trips a month or make 30K a month flying a guppy working 5 trips a month. Singapore RON or Midland RON…..hmmmmmm
We will not even touch the reserves rules at most other airlines. I can guarantee you one thing, covering several airports does not once enter into the discussion of taking an upgrade. Met a United pilot neat me that enjoys covering all the Bay Area bases, he grabs a co base and gets to park his airplane for free at the local FBO as United covers the cost. He avoids the traffic and cuts the time to commute in half.
This will go to a vote and I guarantee you this, you will lose as the upside is better than the potential drawbacks. Sometimes people need to be dragged into the new age.
Upgrades go junior at other airlines because other airlines have real airplanes for an FO to hang out in. Let’s see here, make 27K a month as a WB FO working 3 trips a month or make 30K a month flying a guppy working 5 trips a month. Singapore RON or Midland RON…..hmmmmmm
We will not even touch the reserves rules at most other airlines. I can guarantee you one thing, covering several airports does not once enter into the discussion of taking an upgrade. Met a United pilot neat me that enjoys covering all the Bay Area bases, he grabs a co base and gets to park his airplane for free at the local FBO as United covers the cost. He avoids the traffic and cuts the time to commute in half.
This will go to a vote and I guarantee you this, you will lose as the upside is better than the potential drawbacks. Sometimes people need to be dragged into the new age.
Another friend at American based in SoCal on 737 at LAX told me she hasn't flown LAX trips in ages either. At AA on 737, they cover SAN, SNA and LAX and technically ONT but ONT is all Airbus now. Supposedly, most of the flying out of SAN gets snatched up quick. SNA may have a couple, but proffering seems to work for them. But in their case, they don't cover transportation for reserves to/from co-terminals - only parking at co-terminal, so they're on their own and depend solely on proffering.
So this got me thinking about what SWAPA has released so far about this that ties into other work rules rather than just co-terminals - reserve proffering. Zard , I just remembered your post yesterday about your upgrade and worrying about being junior and caught up in this. It's definitely something to be grilling SWAPA about, but check this out, and here's how I understand this to work... suppose you're a MDW commuter and you commute on us, so you have nothing to do with ORD and want nothing to do with ORD:
With reserve proffer, pretty sure you can stay away from ORD if that's what you'd want. But suppose you get called out to cover a trip out of ORD, the company covers the cost of your transportation to and from ORD anyway so it's at no cost to you. Unlike at OAL's who just pay for parking at co-terminals, as a reserve, your taxi/Uber Black gets paid to/from co-terminal. That would be one of my biggest factors I'd oppose this as a junior commuter on reserve, but if transport issue is not an issue, and unlike now, I can proffer for trips... I just don't see this as a big deal, at least for me. Hope this allays your concerns about upgrade and being a junior captain at a co-terminal.
Open mind, come up with scenarios and ask many questions to foster the discussion.
11-06-2023, 06:16 AM
#1585
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2015
Posts: 1,153
Here come the company salesmen with claims of explosive growth, home based flying, and the company paying for airplane parking at an FBO!
Any other bs pipe dreams you think will happen here? None of that was mentioned in the union release of the “guardrails”.
For the majority of pilots who bought a home on the correct side of town for this company’s domicile this is an easy NO.
But go ahead, tell us more fairy tales about how you have already voted YES to a turd concession before you even read the language.
.
Any other bs pipe dreams you think will happen here? None of that was mentioned in the union release of the “guardrails”.
For the majority of pilots who bought a home on the correct side of town for this company’s domicile this is an easy NO.
But go ahead, tell us more fairy tales about how you have already voted YES to a turd concession before you even read the language.
.
Last edited by Profane Kahuna; 11-06-2023 at 06:26 AM.
11-06-2023, 06:45 AM
#1586
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 40,041
Lack of significant improvement in LTD will cause me to vote NO.
Co-Basing will cause me to vote NO
I am shocked that smart guys do not see the disasters CO-Basing will create. Think of having two different parking arrangements, two different crashpad or hotel arrangements, potentially needing to commute on competitor metal, potentially driving past your current base to the satellite Co-Base (that would be me), extra gas cost, and the list goes on.
What the heck are y’all thinking? This will be one of the biggest QOL concessions the company will have ever gotten. For the sake of all of us that will be affected - - WAKE UP!!
Co-Basing will cause me to vote NO
I am shocked that smart guys do not see the disasters CO-Basing will create. Think of having two different parking arrangements, two different crashpad or hotel arrangements, potentially needing to commute on competitor metal, potentially driving past your current base to the satellite Co-Base (that would be me), extra gas cost, and the list goes on.
What the heck are y’all thinking? This will be one of the biggest QOL concessions the company will have ever gotten. For the sake of all of us that will be affected - - WAKE UP!!
Minimal hassle for commuters, you'd just have to show earlier to account for the van ride.
Lots of upside for locals (who can also use the transpo option). Parking at small airports tends to be pretty simple compared to big hubs, if you choose to drive.
Still it comes down to benefit (for some local pilots) vs some hassle for everybody else.
11-06-2023, 06:46 AM
#1587
Gets Weekend Reserve
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,764
Here come the company salesmen with claims of explosive growth, home based flying, and the company paying for airplane parking at an FBO!
Any other bs pipe dreams you think will happen here? None of that was mentioned in the union release of the “guardrails”.
For the majority of pilots who bought a home on the correct side of town for this company’s domicile this is an easy NO.
But go ahead, tell us more fairy tales about how you have already voted YES to a turd concession before you even read the language.
.
Any other bs pipe dreams you think will happen here? None of that was mentioned in the union release of the “guardrails”.
For the majority of pilots who bought a home on the correct side of town for this company’s domicile this is an easy NO.
But go ahead, tell us more fairy tales about how you have already voted YES to a turd concession before you even read the language.
.
With respect to other things you talk about, here's the reminder of what the union released already:
Blueprint for Success |Schedule Research Committee
Last week, SWAPA announced our fully AIPed Planning and Reserve sections, which accomplished all of the C2020 goals we aimed to achieve based on polling data and member feedback. One item that helped achieve progress was exploring a Company proposal of potentially incorporating co-domiciles. While this was a late ask by the Company, SWAPA only agreed to it after shaping a very limited framework. Here is a brief recap of what we’ve agreed to that covers some, but not all, of the restrictions that will ensure a SWAPA Pilot's quality of life would not be negatively impacted by co-terminal pairings:
- Pairings will only be allowed to begin and end in the same station, with the exception to allow a Pilot to request return to the other station to prevent an unscheduled overnight.
- First-round hard lines will only be allowed to be built out of one station.
- Co-terminal lines will be limited to 20% of the total hard lines built in that domicile.
- Co-terminals at initial launch include DAL/DFW, HOU/IAH, and MDW/ORD.
- New co-terminals will only be opened with mutual agreement between SWAPA and the Company.
- Reassignments requiring ground transportation between stations are strictly prohibited, but a Pilot will have the option to request waiving double deadheads between stations to take ground transportation.
- Reserve callout time for a co-terminal will be three hours.
- Reserves will be given premium for a callout that is less than three hours to the co-terminal.
- Reserves will not be added onto a different co-terminal than the one they are returning to.
- Reserves will be reimbursed for taxi, Uber, or equivalent transportation when covering co-terminal flying.
We also expect that the opening of co-terminals would allow more uncovered flying to be processed through Open Time, for which we are still working on codifying language in the still-open sections of Additional Flying and Schedule Execution. As we discuss scheduling with senior SWA leadership, your SRC would like to remind Pilots that many of our scheduling proposals are available for review on the Contract 2020 Blueprint for Success site.
I do agree with you in that the company probably wouldn't cover the ramp fee at ORD as the overnight fees are insane! But at some of our regular bases? Believe it or not, parking your aircraft overnight is cheaper than parking in their terminal parking garage. See for yourself... https://rampfee.me
11-06-2023, 07:08 AM
#1588
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2012
Posts: 2,030
Funny you should mention this... A UAL buddy about 50% company seniority, EWR A320 CA. Absolutely LOVES this. It lets him stay the hell away from EWR as he bids lines out of LGA. He was the one who told me it was the company that wanted it, but turns out pilots ended up liking it way more than the company.
Another friend at American based in SoCal on 737 at LAX told me she hasn't flown LAX trips in ages either. At AA on 737, they cover SAN, SNA and LAX and technically ONT but ONT is all Airbus now. Supposedly, most of the flying out of SAN gets snatched up quick. SNA may have a couple, but proffering seems to work for them. But in their case, they don't cover transportation for reserves to/from co-terminals - only parking at co-terminal, so they're on their own and depend solely on proffering.
So this got me thinking about what SWAPA has released so far about this that ties into other work rules rather than just co-terminals - reserve proffering. Zard , I just remembered your post yesterday about your upgrade and worrying about being junior and caught up in this. It's definitely something to be grilling SWAPA about, but check this out, and here's how I understand this to work... suppose you're a MDW commuter and you commute on us, so you have nothing to do with ORD and want nothing to do with ORD:
With reserve proffer, pretty sure you can stay away from ORD if that's what you'd want. But suppose you get called out to cover a trip out of ORD, the company covers the cost of your transportation to and from ORD anyway so it's at no cost to you. Unlike at OAL's who just pay for parking at co-terminals, as a reserve, your taxi/Uber Black gets paid to/from co-terminal. That would be one of my biggest factors I'd oppose this as a junior commuter on reserve, but if transport issue is not an issue, and unlike now, I can proffer for trips... I just don't see this as a big deal, at least for me. Hope this allays your concerns about upgrade and being a junior captain at a co-terminal.
Open mind, come up with scenarios and ask many questions to foster the discussion.
Another friend at American based in SoCal on 737 at LAX told me she hasn't flown LAX trips in ages either. At AA on 737, they cover SAN, SNA and LAX and technically ONT but ONT is all Airbus now. Supposedly, most of the flying out of SAN gets snatched up quick. SNA may have a couple, but proffering seems to work for them. But in their case, they don't cover transportation for reserves to/from co-terminals - only parking at co-terminal, so they're on their own and depend solely on proffering.
So this got me thinking about what SWAPA has released so far about this that ties into other work rules rather than just co-terminals - reserve proffering. Zard , I just remembered your post yesterday about your upgrade and worrying about being junior and caught up in this. It's definitely something to be grilling SWAPA about, but check this out, and here's how I understand this to work... suppose you're a MDW commuter and you commute on us, so you have nothing to do with ORD and want nothing to do with ORD:
With reserve proffer, pretty sure you can stay away from ORD if that's what you'd want. But suppose you get called out to cover a trip out of ORD, the company covers the cost of your transportation to and from ORD anyway so it's at no cost to you. Unlike at OAL's who just pay for parking at co-terminals, as a reserve, your taxi/Uber Black gets paid to/from co-terminal. That would be one of my biggest factors I'd oppose this as a junior commuter on reserve, but if transport issue is not an issue, and unlike now, I can proffer for trips... I just don't see this as a big deal, at least for me. Hope this allays your concerns about upgrade and being a junior captain at a co-terminal.
Open mind, come up with scenarios and ask many questions to foster the discussion.
As a normally off-line commuter I would bid Chicago if I could do ORD reserve, because it’s much easier to get to ORD than MDW from my commuter airport. Same with Houston and Dallas, it’s an easy commute to IAH and DFW, but HOU and DAL are not practical.
11-06-2023, 07:14 AM
#1589
Gets Weekend Reserve
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,764
Hell, if you live in base and you want co-terminal flying, Princess Parking.... Uber to/from home at company's expense. Again... I'd like to see the final language.
11-06-2023, 07:15 AM
#1590
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2010
Position: DOWNGRADE COMPLETE: Thanks Gary. Thanks SWAPA.
Posts: 6,783
If you read between the lines and start putting 2 & 2 together, it’s pretty obvious that the company’s trying to sneak this in so they can pull the trigger on the Dreamliner order.
Of the three bases that have been agreed to for co-terminals, all three are the exact same situation. MDW, HOU, and DAL have runways that are too short while ORD, IAH, and DFW have runways long enough for 787 ops.
Duh!!!!
🔥👇
Of the three bases that have been agreed to for co-terminals, all three are the exact same situation. MDW, HOU, and DAL have runways that are too short while ORD, IAH, and DFW have runways long enough for 787 ops.
Duh!!!!
🔥👇
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