1,221 Reasons Not to work for Southwest
11-05-2023, 09:11 AM
#1561
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2013
Posts: 3,650
Also people were screaming scope erosion with the PDEW code share language in 2016 and the company still can't collect Canadian Loonies or set up a codeshare with anyone. Until they actually do something with it....it's meaningless. We can't fly into DFW until 2025. We have like 2 gates in IAH and ORD with not much room to grow. If you think they're going to instantly come out with 100 ORD or IAH lines....you're on crack. This is the same mgt team the didn't know where anybody was a year ago. I don't give them that much credit. Limit it to the 3 bases, make the language strong with incentives to the pilot group, and do not allow anything extra without SWAPA approval.
I have quit arguing on the CT thing because it is the same people making the same arguments again and again. It's silly. I have said my piece. Now I will look at the language and decide if the whole contract is worth it. Anyone who does otherwise is just being churlish. (And insubordinate).
I will admit, there are a couple of nice things about the idea of co-terminals. There are also huge drawbacks, though, and anyone who doesn't see that is intentionally putting on blinders. The argument of "growth constrained" should not even be considered. The promise of growth is an obvious carrot that has the potential of being abused. HOU is growing. DAL could grow post Wright.
Whatever it looks like, it's going to be AIPd. Get comfortable with the idea. Save your powder until the language comes out and then we can all come back here and argue again until we are blue in the face when it actually means something.
11-05-2023, 09:49 AM
#1562
At your mom's house
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: cpt 737
Posts: 2,797
The argument should be based on the most extreme use of the language, not on "the company is too dumb to use it". Eventually, the company won't be too dumb and past practice shows that they exploit contract language to the full degree.
I have quit arguing on the CT thing because it is the same people making the same arguments again and again. It's silly. I have said my piece. Now I will look at the language and decide if the whole contract is worth it. Anyone who does otherwise is just being churlish. (And insubordinate).
I will admit, there are a couple of nice things about the idea of co-terminals. There are also huge drawbacks, though, and anyone who doesn't see that is intentionally putting on blinders. The argument of "growth constrained" should not even be considered. The promise of growth is an obvious carrot that has the potential of being abused. HOU is growing. DAL could grow post Wright.
Whatever it looks like, it's going to be AIPd. Get comfortable with the idea. Save your powder until the language comes out and then we can all come back here and argue again until we are blue in the face when it actually means something.
I have quit arguing on the CT thing because it is the same people making the same arguments again and again. It's silly. I have said my piece. Now I will look at the language and decide if the whole contract is worth it. Anyone who does otherwise is just being churlish. (And insubordinate).
I will admit, there are a couple of nice things about the idea of co-terminals. There are also huge drawbacks, though, and anyone who doesn't see that is intentionally putting on blinders. The argument of "growth constrained" should not even be considered. The promise of growth is an obvious carrot that has the potential of being abused. HOU is growing. DAL could grow post Wright.
Whatever it looks like, it's going to be AIPd. Get comfortable with the idea. Save your powder until the language comes out and then we can all come back here and argue again until we are blue in the face when it actually means something.
11-05-2023, 10:02 AM
#1563
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2013
Posts: 3,650
Not to say calling or writing is a bad thing, especially a call. I find they are a lot more candid when it isn't written communication.
11-05-2023, 10:51 AM
#1564
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2020
Posts: 1,891
The only thing your reps can do is vote no on the AIP. They don't control the NC and this is already agreed to. I guarantee you this language will appear in a completed AIP very soon. I know my reps won't pass on something that isn't worth voting on, but again, I will wait for details prior to lobbying them.
Not to say calling or writing is a bad thing, especially a call. I find they are a lot more candid when it isn't written communication.
Not to say calling or writing is a bad thing, especially a call. I find they are a lot more candid when it isn't written communication.
11-05-2023, 11:01 AM
#1565
gets time off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,233
That only goes one way. Those saying they wont send something out not worthy. Should take the blinders off. While a few inside swapa might be dissenting, the majority will fall in line like usual. Then the sales job and yes support will come. Some with the arguments for the coterminals should read what they write. Because reasons against are in those arguments. More forest for the trees. Plus, it has been discussed here and OTOF why they are bad. Some just can't comprehend the why.
11-05-2023, 12:11 PM
#1567
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2017
Posts: 326
Opps you did it again. Now you are going after the new age generation of sensitive pilot. You are on a roll man. Keep going. I think it's coming into focus exactly the type of dude you are to fly with. Us new age pilots know.
Hint hint "Hey man I'm sorry I got carried away and insulted you, let’s start over." It's called manners my guy. Did they have those in your generation of old timers? Or was your dad too busy beating your mom for speaking to teach you?
Hint hint "Hey man I'm sorry I got carried away and insulted you, let’s start over." It's called manners my guy. Did they have those in your generation of old timers? Or was your dad too busy beating your mom for speaking to teach you?
11-05-2023, 12:24 PM
#1568
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2011
Position: A320 FO
Posts: 976
11-05-2023, 01:06 PM
#1569
On Reserve
Joined APC: Sep 2023
Posts: 10
Also people were screaming scope erosion with the PDEW code share language in 2016 and the company still can't collect Canadian Loonies or set up a codeshare with anyone. Until they actually do something with it....it's meaningless. We can't fly into DFW until 2025. We have like 2 gates in IAH and ORD with not much room to grow. If you think they're going to instantly come out with 100 ORD or IAH lines....you're on crack. This is the same mgt team the didn't know where anybody was a year ago. I don't give them that much credit. Limit it to the 3 bases, make the language strong with incentives to the pilot group, and do not allow anything extra without SWAPA approval.
“Make the language strong with incentives to the pilot group” - I’ll be open minded about this once the language comes out. So far they are woefully short on the incentive part.
11-05-2023, 01:31 PM
#1570
gets time off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,233
Why limit it to 3 bases? If it’s a win why not do it everywhere? Or are we just asking a few thousand pilots to take a big “L” here?
“Make the language strong with incentives to the pilot group” - I’ll be open minded about this once the language comes out. So far they are woefully short on the incentive part.
“Make the language strong with incentives to the pilot group” - I’ll be open minded about this once the language comes out. So far they are woefully short on the incentive part.
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