1,221 Reasons Not to work for Southwest
11-01-2023, 12:49 AM
#1472
At your mom's house
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: cpt 737
Posts: 2,832
Zap isn't wrong. We are past V1, my dudes.
Once this thing gets thrown out there, I plan on picking it apart with a fine toothed comb, as will others. I am sure there will be some feisty discussion. I don't think we are going to like everything about it, but it needs to reflect the market conditions, which are amazingly in our favor. Next negotiating cycle probably won't be.
My opinion only, unless this is spectacular (and it may be, not sure yet), I think it's headed towards another round of negotiations. With all that being said, I may like it. If I do, I'll vote for it.
No fatigue here. My wife doesn't even know I am getting retro and I won't tell her until the day it arrives in our account (or maybe not even then?).
Once this thing gets thrown out there, I plan on picking it apart with a fine toothed comb, as will others. I am sure there will be some feisty discussion. I don't think we are going to like everything about it, but it needs to reflect the market conditions, which are amazingly in our favor. Next negotiating cycle probably won't be.
My opinion only, unless this is spectacular (and it may be, not sure yet), I think it's headed towards another round of negotiations. With all that being said, I may like it. If I do, I'll vote for it.
No fatigue here. My wife doesn't even know I am getting retro and I won't tell her until the day it arrives in our account (or maybe not even then?).
Do we try and stop it knowing we may not be able to cause the tires are blown or do we take it in the air with a known fire?
Its a tough spot to be in. Both answers are right it just depends on what you're willing to risk.
11-01-2023, 04:35 AM
#1473
Furloughed Again?!
Joined APC: Aug 2007
Position: Boeing 737
Posts: 4,804
we are 6 kts prior to V1 and we get a wheel well fire.
Do we try and stop it knowing we may not be able to cause the tires are blown or do we take it in the air with a known fire?
Its a tough spot to be in. Both answers are right it just depends on what you're willing to risk.
Do we try and stop it knowing we may not be able to cause the tires are blown or do we take it in the air with a known fire?
Its a tough spot to be in. Both answers are right it just depends on what you're willing to risk.
The airlines were doing pretty great right up to 9/11. At USAir we were still hiring 100 pilots a month. The fear of terrorism followed by the Iraq war slammed on the brakes and resulted in a breathtaking number of furloughs that lasted throughout the lost decade.
Regionals exploded for the first several years as mainline management took advantage of force majeur language to park older airplanes - DC9, F100, MD80, 737-200... and replace those good mainline jobs with thousands of poverty wage commuter jobs.... and then the commuter guys experienced their OWN lost decade as there was no hiring and no place to go at the majors who were not only inundated by furloughs, but who had just given away a sizable fraction of their flying to those very same regionals. And just when it looked like things might be getting better, they raised the retirement age to 65 resulting in even more stagnation.
Now to be fair, those mainline contracts would have been torn apart in bankruptcy whether they had force majeur language or not. But it was that language that USAir president Rakesh Gangwal said "opened certain doors to us that were unavailable before" allowing them to abrogate sections of the contract including, minimum fleet count, minimum Captain positions, minimum block hours, and the no furlough clause.
Hopefully we will have a CBA and at least lock in the some of the scheduling and QOL improvements (harder for those to be changed in bankruptcy) before we are staring down the barrel of another lost decade.
Before you come after me with pitchforks and torches calling me names and whatnot, I'm not advocating for rolling over. This all seems so eerily similar to 9/11 you can hopefully understand why I'm nervous that we are going down that road again, My career has been littered with these multi year speed bumps and I am admittedly Chicken Little about the events that could potentially be leading us towards another one.
Last edited by ZapBrannigan; 11-01-2023 at 05:12 AM.
11-01-2023, 06:55 AM
#1474
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2005
Position: 737 FO
Posts: 270
I'm definitely not advocating for signing anything they push across the table, but there are risks in stretching out the timeline. A possible war in the Middle East with associated increases in fuel prices, and softening of domestic non-premium travel - the same thing that's hurting Spirit, Frontier, and JetBlue right now.
The airlines were doing pretty great right up to 9/11. At USAir we were still hiring 100 pilots a month. The fear of terrorism followed by the Iraq war slammed on the brakes and resulted in a breathtaking number of furloughs that lasted throughout the lost decade.
Regionals exploded for the first several years as mainline management took advantage of force majeur language to park older airplanes - DC9, F100, MD80, 737-200... and replace those good mainline jobs with thousands of poverty wage commuter jobs.... and then the commuter guys experienced their OWN lost decade as there was no hiring and no place to go at the majors who were not only inundated by furloughs, but who had just given away a sizable fraction of their flying to those very same regionals. And just when it looked like things might be getting better, they raised the retirement age to 65 resulting in even more stagnation.
Now to be fair, those mainline contracts would have been torn apart in bankruptcy whether they had force majeur language or not. But it was that language that USAir president Rakesh Gangwal said "opened certain doors to us that were unavailable before" allowing them to abrogate sections of the contract including, minimum fleet count, minimum Captain positions, minimum block hours, and the no furlough clause.
Hopefully we will have a CBA and at least lock in the some of the scheduling and QOL improvements (harder for those to be changed in bankruptcy) before we are staring down the barrel of another lost decade.
Before you come after me with pitchforks and torches calling me names and whatnot, I'm not advocating for rolling over. This all seems so eerily similar to 9/11 you can hopefully understand why I'm nervous that we are going down that road again, My career has been littered with these multi year speed bumps and I am admittedly Chicken Little about the events that could potentially be leading us towards another one.
The airlines were doing pretty great right up to 9/11. At USAir we were still hiring 100 pilots a month. The fear of terrorism followed by the Iraq war slammed on the brakes and resulted in a breathtaking number of furloughs that lasted throughout the lost decade.
Regionals exploded for the first several years as mainline management took advantage of force majeur language to park older airplanes - DC9, F100, MD80, 737-200... and replace those good mainline jobs with thousands of poverty wage commuter jobs.... and then the commuter guys experienced their OWN lost decade as there was no hiring and no place to go at the majors who were not only inundated by furloughs, but who had just given away a sizable fraction of their flying to those very same regionals. And just when it looked like things might be getting better, they raised the retirement age to 65 resulting in even more stagnation.
Now to be fair, those mainline contracts would have been torn apart in bankruptcy whether they had force majeur language or not. But it was that language that USAir president Rakesh Gangwal said "opened certain doors to us that were unavailable before" allowing them to abrogate sections of the contract including, minimum fleet count, minimum Captain positions, minimum block hours, and the no furlough clause.
Hopefully we will have a CBA and at least lock in the some of the scheduling and QOL improvements (harder for those to be changed in bankruptcy) before we are staring down the barrel of another lost decade.
Before you come after me with pitchforks and torches calling me names and whatnot, I'm not advocating for rolling over. This all seems so eerily similar to 9/11 you can hopefully understand why I'm nervous that we are going down that road again, My career has been littered with these multi year speed bumps and I am admittedly Chicken Little about the events that could potentially be leading us towards another one.
11-01-2023, 07:02 AM
#1475
gets time off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,249
I'm definitely not advocating for signing anything they push across the table, but there are risks in stretching out the timeline. A possible war in the Middle East with associated increases in fuel prices, and softening of domestic non-premium travel - the same thing that's hurting Spirit, Frontier, and JetBlue right now.
The airlines were doing pretty great right up to 9/11. At USAir we were still hiring 100 pilots a month. The fear of terrorism followed by the Iraq war slammed on the brakes and resulted in a breathtaking number of furloughs that lasted throughout the lost decade.
Regionals exploded for the first several years as mainline management took advantage of force majeur language to park older airplanes - DC9, F100, MD80, 737-200... and replace those good mainline jobs with thousands of poverty wage commuter jobs.... and then the commuter guys experienced their OWN lost decade as there was no hiring and no place to go at the majors who were not only inundated by furloughs, but who had just given away a sizable fraction of their flying to those very same regionals. And just when it looked like things might be getting better, they raised the retirement age to 65 resulting in even more stagnation.
Now to be fair, those mainline contracts would have been torn apart in bankruptcy whether they had force majeur language or not. But it was that language that USAir president Rakesh Gangwal said "opened certain doors to us that were unavailable before" allowing them to abrogate sections of the contract including, minimum fleet count, minimum Captain positions, minimum block hours, and the no furlough clause.
Hopefully we will have a CBA and at least lock in the some of the scheduling and QOL improvements (harder for those to be changed in bankruptcy) before we are staring down the barrel of another lost decade.
Before you come after me with pitchforks and torches calling me names and whatnot, I'm not advocating for rolling over. This all seems so eerily similar to 9/11 you can hopefully understand why I'm nervous that we are going down that road again, My career has been littered with these multi year speed bumps and I am admittedly Chicken Little about the events that could potentially be leading us towards another one.
The airlines were doing pretty great right up to 9/11. At USAir we were still hiring 100 pilots a month. The fear of terrorism followed by the Iraq war slammed on the brakes and resulted in a breathtaking number of furloughs that lasted throughout the lost decade.
Regionals exploded for the first several years as mainline management took advantage of force majeur language to park older airplanes - DC9, F100, MD80, 737-200... and replace those good mainline jobs with thousands of poverty wage commuter jobs.... and then the commuter guys experienced their OWN lost decade as there was no hiring and no place to go at the majors who were not only inundated by furloughs, but who had just given away a sizable fraction of their flying to those very same regionals. And just when it looked like things might be getting better, they raised the retirement age to 65 resulting in even more stagnation.
Now to be fair, those mainline contracts would have been torn apart in bankruptcy whether they had force majeur language or not. But it was that language that USAir president Rakesh Gangwal said "opened certain doors to us that were unavailable before" allowing them to abrogate sections of the contract including, minimum fleet count, minimum Captain positions, minimum block hours, and the no furlough clause.
Hopefully we will have a CBA and at least lock in the some of the scheduling and QOL improvements (harder for those to be changed in bankruptcy) before we are staring down the barrel of another lost decade.
Before you come after me with pitchforks and torches calling me names and whatnot, I'm not advocating for rolling over. This all seems so eerily similar to 9/11 you can hopefully understand why I'm nervous that we are going down that road again, My career has been littered with these multi year speed bumps and I am admittedly Chicken Little about the events that could potentially be leading us towards another one.
11-01-2023, 03:53 PM
#1476
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2010
Position: DOWNGRADE COMPLETE: Thanks Gary. Thanks SWAPA.
Posts: 6,831
I'm definitely not advocating for signing anything they push across the table, but there are risks in stretching out the timeline. A possible war in the Middle East with associated increases in fuel prices, and softening of domestic non-premium travel - the same thing that's hurting Spirit, Frontier, and JetBlue right now.
The airlines were doing pretty great right up to 9/11. At USAir we were still hiring 100 pilots a month. The fear of terrorism followed by the Iraq war slammed on the brakes and resulted in a breathtaking number of furloughs that lasted throughout the lost decade.
Regionals exploded for the first several years as mainline management took advantage of force majeur language to park older airplanes - DC9, F100, MD80, 737-200... and replace those good mainline jobs with thousands of poverty wage commuter jobs.... and then the commuter guys experienced their OWN lost decade as there was no hiring and no place to go at the majors who were not only inundated by furloughs, but who had just given away a sizable fraction of their flying to those very same regionals. And just when it looked like things might be getting better, they raised the retirement age to 65 resulting in even more stagnation.
Now to be fair, those mainline contracts would have been torn apart in bankruptcy whether they had force majeur language or not. But it was that language that USAir president Rakesh Gangwal said "opened certain doors to us that were unavailable before" allowing them to abrogate sections of the contract including, minimum fleet count, minimum Captain positions, minimum block hours, and the no furlough clause.
Hopefully we will have a CBA and at least lock in the some of the scheduling and QOL improvements (harder for those to be changed in bankruptcy) before we are staring down the barrel of another lost decade.
Before you come after me with pitchforks and torches calling me names and whatnot, I'm not advocating for rolling over. This all seems so eerily similar to 9/11 you can hopefully understand why I'm nervous that we are going down that road again, My career has been littered with these multi year speed bumps and I am admittedly Chicken Little about the events that could potentially be leading us towards another one.
The airlines were doing pretty great right up to 9/11. At USAir we were still hiring 100 pilots a month. The fear of terrorism followed by the Iraq war slammed on the brakes and resulted in a breathtaking number of furloughs that lasted throughout the lost decade.
Regionals exploded for the first several years as mainline management took advantage of force majeur language to park older airplanes - DC9, F100, MD80, 737-200... and replace those good mainline jobs with thousands of poverty wage commuter jobs.... and then the commuter guys experienced their OWN lost decade as there was no hiring and no place to go at the majors who were not only inundated by furloughs, but who had just given away a sizable fraction of their flying to those very same regionals. And just when it looked like things might be getting better, they raised the retirement age to 65 resulting in even more stagnation.
Now to be fair, those mainline contracts would have been torn apart in bankruptcy whether they had force majeur language or not. But it was that language that USAir president Rakesh Gangwal said "opened certain doors to us that were unavailable before" allowing them to abrogate sections of the contract including, minimum fleet count, minimum Captain positions, minimum block hours, and the no furlough clause.
Hopefully we will have a CBA and at least lock in the some of the scheduling and QOL improvements (harder for those to be changed in bankruptcy) before we are staring down the barrel of another lost decade.
Before you come after me with pitchforks and torches calling me names and whatnot, I'm not advocating for rolling over. This all seems so eerily similar to 9/11 you can hopefully understand why I'm nervous that we are going down that road again, My career has been littered with these multi year speed bumps and I am admittedly Chicken Little about the events that could potentially be leading us towards another one.
Wholeheartedly we need to get this first one right!
🔥👇
11-01-2023, 05:35 PM
#1477
Furloughed Again?!
Joined APC: Aug 2007
Position: Boeing 737
Posts: 4,804
Delta is leading the industry, and not in a good way. It's always quicker and easier to furlough the non-union employees first. Canary in the coal mine.
https://www.cnbc.com/2023/11/01/delta-l
https://www.cnbc.com/2023/11/01/delta-l
11-01-2023, 06:05 PM
#1478
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2015
Posts: 647
Delta is leading the industry, and not in a good way. It's always quicker and easier to furlough the non-union employees first. Canary in the coal mine.
https://www.cnbc.com/2023/11/01/delta-l
https://www.cnbc.com/2023/11/01/delta-l
11-01-2023, 06:37 PM
#1479
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Posts: 758
11-01-2023, 06:39 PM
#1480
Furloughed Again?!
Joined APC: Aug 2007
Position: Boeing 737
Posts: 4,804
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