1,221 Reasons Not to work for Southwest
10-05-2023, 10:04 PM
#1401
Gets Weekend Reserve
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,794
all of your scenarios can happen without co terminals but now they start with a DH from another base that you can waive and get paid for. Under the co terminals you no longer get this. That's why people are against it.
also saying we need it to grow the base is not a good argument. Itll once again be maxed out very shortly.
also saying we need it to grow the base is not a good argument. Itll once again be maxed out very shortly.
I think we've all beat this one to death and I think everyone has their opinions on it and its probably not going to change.
as another data point I havent spoke with anyone who's for this, however, I man not in one of the affected bases.
as another data point I havent spoke with anyone who's for this, however, I man not in one of the affected bases.
this sick leave/accrual is what's going to lead us to strike or a failed TA1.
Remember it was polled if we were willing to give up sick for xx. I could see the NC trying to find a balance in this to get the deal done. That would also be a concession to me.
Remember it was polled if we were willing to give up sick for xx. I could see the NC trying to find a balance in this to get the deal done. That would also be a concession to me.
10-06-2023, 01:57 PM
#1402
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jul 2021
Position: I fly airplanes
Posts: 73
Agree 100%. This is the hill worth dying on IMO and the issue we will park aircraft for. We need to get STD/LTD/LOL/life insurance/medical squared away without sacrificing sick bank accrual… no matter what. I also think this will be the hardest fought battle between the NC and SWA because of the astronomical costs involved. The kompany painted themselves in this corner, and it’s time to pay up.
10-06-2023, 02:20 PM
#1403
Furloughed Again?!
Joined APC: Aug 2007
Position: Boeing 737
Posts: 4,804
Agree 100%. This is the hill worth dying on IMO and the issue we will park aircraft for. We need to get STD/LTD/LOL/life insurance/medical squared away without sacrificing sick bank accrual… no matter what. I also think this will be the hardest fought battle between the NC and SWA because of the astronomical costs involved. The kompany painted themselves in this corner, and it’s time to pay up.
No point in hanging onto 1600 sick trips if you'll only ever burn 150 before being covered by STD/LTD. Throw in a few hundred more for personal time off.
Im not trying to give away the farm here. But have you ever tried to work out how long prior to retirement you would have to begin to call in sick, one 3 day a month, to get rid of 1600 sick trips? It's YEARS prior to retirement.
I'm really hoping for a quality LTD plan that includes continued contributions to my 401K until retirement.
10-06-2023, 02:24 PM
#1404
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2021
Posts: 466
I agree regarding accrual rate. But IF we win a Cadillac STD/LTD plan, I'd be willing to allow them to buy down my sick bank and go forward with a lower maximum sick bank.
No point in hanging onto 1600 sick trips if you'll only ever burn 150 before being covered by STD/LTD. Throw in a few hundred more for personal time off.
Im not trying to give away the farm here. But have you ever tried to work out how long prior to retirement you would have to begin to call in sick, one 3 day a month, to get rid of 1600 sick trips? It's YEARS prior to retirement.
I'm really hoping for a quality LTD plan that includes continued contributions to my 401K until retirement.
No point in hanging onto 1600 sick trips if you'll only ever burn 150 before being covered by STD/LTD. Throw in a few hundred more for personal time off.
Im not trying to give away the farm here. But have you ever tried to work out how long prior to retirement you would have to begin to call in sick, one 3 day a month, to get rid of 1600 sick trips? It's YEARS prior to retirement.
I'm really hoping for a quality LTD plan that includes continued contributions to my 401K until retirement.
Yeah, this. SMH at those who will vote NO over not keeping a cadillac sick bank while also demanding a cadillac STD/LTD plan. This is one of those you should not have both ways. The company should offer some sort of % buyback to the currently accrued sick hours each pilot has over X hours. There is absolutely no need to have 1600 hrs of sick bank when STD/LTD would kick in after X weeks.
10-06-2023, 03:07 PM
#1405
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2012
Posts: 2,030
Yeah, this. SMH at those who will vote NO over not keeping a cadillac sick bank while also demanding a cadillac STD/LTD plan. This is one of those you should not have both ways. The company should offer some sort of % buyback to the currently accrued sick hours each pilot has over X hours. There is absolutely no need to have 1600 hrs of sick bank when STD/LTD would kick in after X weeks.
But, the company built this house of accruing massive sick time to avoid providing a retirement sick plan and now it’s backfired.
We need a plan that if you have back-to-back disabilities you don’t suffer financially the second time because you had to burn your sick time on the first round (not having been here long enough to build up many years’ worth) as well as a plan that covers us going into retirement. As was already mentioned, if there’s a Cadillac plan that makes 1600 tfp irrelevant the whole concept deserves rethinking.
Again, once you go on LTD they let
you know under no uncertain terms you’re no longer an employee in good standing.
Pilot QOL does not benefit the company.
My vote is NO
10-06-2023, 10:17 PM
#1407
At your mom's house
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: cpt 737
Posts: 2,832
The more information the better
10-07-2023, 02:18 AM
#1408
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2016
Position: Left
Posts: 1,275
u
I don’t know how many are in my position, but after LTD last year I basically have no sick bank, so preserving what I don’t have isn’t that important to me.
But, the company built this house of accruing massive sick time to avoid providing a retirement sick plan and now it’s backfired.
We need a plan that if you have back-to-back disabilities you don’t suffer financially the second time because you had to burn your sick time on the first round (not having been here long enough to build up many years’ worth) as well as a plan that covers us going into retirement. As was already mentioned, if there’s a Cadillac plan that makes 1600 tfp irrelevant the whole concept deserves rethinking.
Again, once you go on LTD they let
you know under no uncertain terms you’re no longer an employee in good standing.
Pilot QOL does not benefit the company.
My vote is NO
But, the company built this house of accruing massive sick time to avoid providing a retirement sick plan and now it’s backfired.
We need a plan that if you have back-to-back disabilities you don’t suffer financially the second time because you had to burn your sick time on the first round (not having been here long enough to build up many years’ worth) as well as a plan that covers us going into retirement. As was already mentioned, if there’s a Cadillac plan that makes 1600 tfp irrelevant the whole concept deserves rethinking.
Again, once you go on LTD they let
you know under no uncertain terms you’re no longer an employee in good standing.
Pilot QOL does not benefit the company.
My vote is NO
Go out on medical this place considers you non productive and kicks you and your family to the curb. I have seen many younger pilots here have a medical injury or accident and the company will not give them the time of day. No benefits , no passes, no LUV.
Just remember, anyone can fall off a ladder or get in an auto accident.
10-07-2023, 03:27 AM
#1409
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2015
Posts: 1,189
This is a huge concession, that is being sold as a gain.
Line construction, where pairings start/end, line quality, seniority, open time, reserves, parking, ground transportation, hotels are just a few of the contractual areas a coterminal touches. Have you fleshed all these topics out for your in domicile and commuting pilot brethren? How about those SWAPA officials who've already gone on a social media roadshow selling this so hard already, have they really flushed out all the unintended consequences in the last 10 days of this new concept?
The company's growth plans and what they are constrained by, isn't the current pilot contract. Nothing in our current contract keeps them from building IAH or DFW lines of flying snd putting them in the bid package. They just don't want to pay for the trans/hotels, paid moves or dhs needed that our current contract would require.
Hence, we need to make a CONCESSION to enable it.
All of this, guilded in EXPLOSIVE GROWTH gold, and lots of us are biting off on the shiny flashy, without having gone through the necessary critical thought, of the long term unintended consequences of such.
Why even consider a single concessionary topic in this contract?
Line construction, where pairings start/end, line quality, seniority, open time, reserves, parking, ground transportation, hotels are just a few of the contractual areas a coterminal touches. Have you fleshed all these topics out for your in domicile and commuting pilot brethren? How about those SWAPA officials who've already gone on a social media roadshow selling this so hard already, have they really flushed out all the unintended consequences in the last 10 days of this new concept?
The company's growth plans and what they are constrained by, isn't the current pilot contract. Nothing in our current contract keeps them from building IAH or DFW lines of flying snd putting them in the bid package. They just don't want to pay for the trans/hotels, paid moves or dhs needed that our current contract would require.
Hence, we need to make a CONCESSION to enable it.
All of this, guilded in EXPLOSIVE GROWTH gold, and lots of us are biting off on the shiny flashy, without having gone through the necessary critical thought, of the long term unintended consequences of such.
Why even consider a single concessionary topic in this contract?
just say NO to concessions!
.
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