1,221 Reasons Not to work for Southwest
09-29-2023, 09:08 AM
#1321
Gets Weekend Reserve
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,764
Caveman, unlike the 800 side letter, we really are tapped out in those domiciles. So what’s the answer that benefits the entire pilot group… ie movement, etc.? Open another base elsewhere? Cover the flying from a different base like now?
Definitely can’t acquiesce to the company because they asked…. That’s a cardinal sin. 🙄
Definitely can’t acquiesce to the company because they asked…. That’s a cardinal sin. 🙄
09-29-2023, 09:11 AM
#1322
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2012
Posts: 2,030
It’s not a concession to me based on what I’ve seen, however we should get all we can.
In this environment we can get everything we ask for and it would foolish not to ask for everything we want.
If the NC doesn’t get us EVERYTHING EVERYONE wants then they need to go back to the table. There’s no reason for anything to be left unaddressed just because they say now’s not the time(like separate hotels). They work for us and don’t have the right to tell us to settle on anything.
Just like a realtor, lawyer, accountant, they work for us and if they don’t get it right they need to go back to work until it’s right.
I’m expecting a TA2 and…
My vote is NO.
In this environment we can get everything we ask for and it would foolish not to ask for everything we want.
If the NC doesn’t get us EVERYTHING EVERYONE wants then they need to go back to the table. There’s no reason for anything to be left unaddressed just because they say now’s not the time(like separate hotels). They work for us and don’t have the right to tell us to settle on anything.
Just like a realtor, lawyer, accountant, they work for us and if they don’t get it right they need to go back to work until it’s right.
I’m expecting a TA2 and…
My vote is NO.
09-29-2023, 10:49 AM
#1325
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2011
Posts: 374
Thats because the union schedule research committee has not publicized a yearly cost amount for all the dh’s to/from any of the proposed co-terminals. I suspect it is several hundred thousands of dollars per year, if not more. We don’t yet know if the value of this change is from the money saved, or for the growth & profit potential. There is a ton of value costing that the union needs to do on this for anyone to make a rational decision.
SWAPA, if you’re reading this, do your homework on this and get back to us. One or two survey questions does not a SEP process make. This issue is running away from the union because we may be giving up a HUGE value change for industry standard disability. Sure a few folks will save 45 minutes of drive time once or twice a month. Is that worth giving away a change that has (potentially) $millions of value over the life of the contract? I don’t know. Show us the math SWAPA!
SWAPA, if you’re reading this, do your homework on this and get back to us. One or two survey questions does not a SEP process make. This issue is running away from the union because we may be giving up a HUGE value change for industry standard disability. Sure a few folks will save 45 minutes of drive time once or twice a month. Is that worth giving away a change that has (potentially) $millions of value over the life of the contract? I don’t know. Show us the math SWAPA!
09-29-2023, 10:58 AM
#1327
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: American Airlines Brake Pad Replacement Technician
Posts: 476
Caveman, unlike the 800 side letter, we really are tapped out in those domiciles. So what’s the answer that benefits the entire pilot group… ie movement, etc.? Open another base elsewhere? Cover the flying from a different base like now?
Definitely can’t acquiesce to the company because they asked…. That’s a cardinal sin. 🙄
Definitely can’t acquiesce to the company because they asked…. That’s a cardinal sin. 🙄
This is a huge concession, that is being sold as a gain.
Line construction, where pairings start/end, line quality, seniority, open time, reserves, parking, ground transportation, hotels are just a few of the contractual areas a coterminal touches. Have you fleshed all these topics out for your in domicile and commuting pilot brethren? How about those SWAPA officials who've already gone on a social media roadshow selling this so hard already, have they really flushed out all the unintended consequences in the last 10 days of this new concept?
The company's growth plans and what they are constrained by, isn't the current pilot contract. Nothing in our current contract keeps them from building IAH or DFW lines of flying snd putting them in the bid package. They just don't want to pay for the trans/hotels, paid moves or dhs needed that our current contract would require.
Hence, we need to make a CONCESSION to enable it.
All of this, guilded in EXPLOSIVE GROWTH gold, and lots of us are biting off on the shiny flashy, without having gone through the necessary critical thought, of the long term unintended consequences of such.
Why even consider a single concessionary topic in this contract?
09-29-2023, 11:36 AM
#1328
gets time off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,233
09-29-2023, 12:43 PM
#1329
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2005
Position: 737 FO
Posts: 270
Pilots. We are smart. Nobody is going to tell us anything we don't know better than already. I get it. Youve made up your mind. That's ok. I respect your yes vote. I understand you're likely fatigued, and ready to get it behind you. That's ok, totally understandable.
This is a huge concession, that is being sold as a gain.
Line construction, where pairings start/end, line quality, seniority, open time, reserves, parking, ground transportation, hotels are just a few of the contractual areas a coterminal touches. Have you fleshed all these topics out for your in domicile and commuting pilot brethren? How about those SWAPA officials who've already gone on a social media roadshow selling this so hard already, have they really flushed out all the unintended consequences in the last 10 days of this new concept?
The company's growth plans and what they are constrained by, isn't the current pilot contract. Nothing in our current contract keeps them from building IAH or DFW lines of flying snd putting them in the bid package. They just don't want to pay for the trans/hotels, paid moves or dhs needed that our current contract would require.
Hence, we need to make a CONCESSION to enable it.
All of this, guilded in EXPLOSIVE GROWTH gold, and lots of us are biting off on the shiny flashy, without having gone through the necessary critical thought, of the long term unintended consequences of such.
Why even consider a single concessionary topic in this contract?
This is a huge concession, that is being sold as a gain.
Line construction, where pairings start/end, line quality, seniority, open time, reserves, parking, ground transportation, hotels are just a few of the contractual areas a coterminal touches. Have you fleshed all these topics out for your in domicile and commuting pilot brethren? How about those SWAPA officials who've already gone on a social media roadshow selling this so hard already, have they really flushed out all the unintended consequences in the last 10 days of this new concept?
The company's growth plans and what they are constrained by, isn't the current pilot contract. Nothing in our current contract keeps them from building IAH or DFW lines of flying snd putting them in the bid package. They just don't want to pay for the trans/hotels, paid moves or dhs needed that our current contract would require.
Hence, we need to make a CONCESSION to enable it.
All of this, guilded in EXPLOSIVE GROWTH gold, and lots of us are biting off on the shiny flashy, without having gone through the necessary critical thought, of the long term unintended consequences of such.
Why even consider a single concessionary topic in this contract?
09-29-2023, 02:31 PM
#1330
Gets Weekend Reserve
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,764
Pilots. We are smart. Nobody is going to tell us anything we don't know better than already. I get it. Youve made up your mind. That's ok. I respect your yes vote. I understand you're likely fatigued, and ready to get it behind you. That's ok, totally understandable.
This is a huge concession, that is being sold as a gain.
Line construction, where pairings start/end, line quality, seniority, open time, reserves, parking, ground transportation, hotels are just a few of the contractual areas a coterminal touches. Have you fleshed all these topics out for your in domicile and commuting pilot brethren? How about those SWAPA officials who've already gone on a social media roadshow selling this so hard already, have they really flushed out all the unintended consequences in the last 10 days of this new concept?
The company's growth plans and what they are constrained by, isn't the current pilot contract. Nothing in our current contract keeps them from building IAH or DFW lines of flying snd putting them in the bid package. They just don't want to pay for the trans/hotels, paid moves or dhs needed that our current contract would require.
Hence, we need to make a CONCESSION to enable it.
All of this, guilded in EXPLOSIVE GROWTH gold, and lots of us are biting off on the shiny flashy, without having gone through the necessary critical thought, of the long term unintended consequences of such.
Why even consider a single concessionary topic in this contract?
This is a huge concession, that is being sold as a gain.
Line construction, where pairings start/end, line quality, seniority, open time, reserves, parking, ground transportation, hotels are just a few of the contractual areas a coterminal touches. Have you fleshed all these topics out for your in domicile and commuting pilot brethren? How about those SWAPA officials who've already gone on a social media roadshow selling this so hard already, have they really flushed out all the unintended consequences in the last 10 days of this new concept?
The company's growth plans and what they are constrained by, isn't the current pilot contract. Nothing in our current contract keeps them from building IAH or DFW lines of flying snd putting them in the bid package. They just don't want to pay for the trans/hotels, paid moves or dhs needed that our current contract would require.
Hence, we need to make a CONCESSION to enable it.
All of this, guilded in EXPLOSIVE GROWTH gold, and lots of us are biting off on the shiny flashy, without having gone through the necessary critical thought, of the long term unintended consequences of such.
Why even consider a single concessionary topic in this contract?
OK. I’ll buy your viewpoint but I absolutely disagree with you. For starters, you’ve just proven to me that you haven’t read anything I wrote, including the part where I said this isn’t worthy of a yes or a no vote, and definitely not the hill to die on. Where you get your yes voting stuff is beyond me… I reckon you’re one of those highly enlightened smart pilots you’re talking about. 😜
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