Trouble with MBAs in Management
01-13-2023, 10:25 PM
#12
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2019
Posts: 121
We are our own worst enemies. In the last 2 weeks I've flown with at least 2, maybe 3, FO's who think SWAPA is too aggressive towards management. I told them, that in my opinion, SWAPA is more reactionary than proactive. In that, SWAPA continues to point out the company when they screw up, lie, go back on their word, etc. SWAPA is not randomly picking up pooh to fling, they are pointing out the problems.
With as many new people that we have coming online the education needs to be non-stop. When they come out of training they will, more than likely, have a little bit of Stockholm Syndrome. The sooner that is broken the better off they will be.
But man, the apathy amongst us is still quite deep.
With as many new people that we have coming online the education needs to be non-stop. When they come out of training they will, more than likely, have a little bit of Stockholm Syndrome. The sooner that is broken the better off they will be.
But man, the apathy amongst us is still quite deep.
01-14-2023, 03:04 AM
#13
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jun 2015
Posts: 51
while I’m sure that it is true you may have flown with some newbs that may be outliers and think SWAPA is xyz, I can assure you that the many of us that just came from regionals, most of which received massive raises just as we had left and while we were in initial at SWA, are shocked at the lack of pressure that SWAPA seems to be able to put on the company to move the needle at all. In fact, from my seat there “appears” to be a more “be patient/don’t rock the boat/it’s coming” mantra from the left seat. Just my own opinions/observations
As a civilian myself I'll bust the civ guys chops harder than the corporate or military. We should know how this industry works. Brother, I'm on your side and i hope the majority are pro-pilot vs pro-company. But, what was the makeup of your class? Was is 50% regional? If so, the other 50% is an unknown, pilot v company sympathizer. IMO, out of training center the military guys tend more pro-company. It's the world they've lived in. Corp, don't know which way they swing. You're never going to have 100% pro-pilot. So if 40% regional guys are pro-pilot that's good. As of now, I'd bet that 50-60% military would swing pro-company. (I am completely open to correction here. Just going off my anecdotal data.) Corp, again, tough call. From my discussions in the cockpit it seems age dictates which way these guys swing. If we say 50-50, those numbers combined are not a hard swing in the pilot direction. The young guys, kids in school, funding a 401k, pro-pilot. Guys who's kids are gone, only one wife or the ex- is remarried. Apathetic. Apathy help the company. If they *don't* vote that's a vote for SWA.
I don't want this gig to go away, but I'm not here for charity. I've enough self pride that if we needed to strike, I'm in. I live within my means and could go get a job at Lowes and pay my bills. At lot of the senior capt's and FO's need to fly those big numbers to pay for their stuff. I've no problem if that is the life they want to lead but I don't owe it to them to take a contract I believe is sub-standard to our profession so they can pay for their sh!t.
01-14-2023, 06:18 AM
#14
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2019
Posts: 121
I agree with ya normal. As one of the, now, old guys, who has always looked at this as a job I agree, there are a lot of apathetic dinosaurs here. These are not the 3 and 4 digit numbers from the original Herb days who were here because no one else would hire them. These are just lazy, I have mine so I'm set types.
As a civilian myself I'll bust the civ guys chops harder than the corporate or military. We should know how this industry works. Brother, I'm on your side and i hope the majority are pro-pilot vs pro-company. But, what was the makeup of your class? Was is 50% regional? If so, the other 50% is an unknown, pilot v company sympathizer. IMO, out of training center the military guys tend more pro-company. It's the world they've lived in. Corp, don't know which way they swing. You're never going to have 100% pro-pilot. So if 40% regional guys are pro-pilot that's good. As of now, I'd bet that 50-60% military would swing pro-company. (I am completely open to correction here. Just going off my anecdotal data.) Corp, again, tough call. From my discussions in the cockpit it seems age dictates which way these guys swing. If we say 50-50, those numbers combined are not a hard swing in the pilot direction. The young guys, kids in school, funding a 401k, pro-pilot. Guys who's kids are gone, only one wife or the ex- is remarried. Apathetic. Apathy help the company. If they *don't* vote that's a vote for SWA.
I don't want this gig to go away, but I'm not here for charity. I've enough self pride that if we needed to strike, I'm in. I live within my means and could go get a job at Lowes and pay my bills. At lot of the senior capt's and FO's need to fly those big numbers to pay for their stuff. I've no problem if that is the life they want to lead but I don't owe it to them to take a contract I believe is sub-standard to our profession so they can pay for their sh!t.
As a civilian myself I'll bust the civ guys chops harder than the corporate or military. We should know how this industry works. Brother, I'm on your side and i hope the majority are pro-pilot vs pro-company. But, what was the makeup of your class? Was is 50% regional? If so, the other 50% is an unknown, pilot v company sympathizer. IMO, out of training center the military guys tend more pro-company. It's the world they've lived in. Corp, don't know which way they swing. You're never going to have 100% pro-pilot. So if 40% regional guys are pro-pilot that's good. As of now, I'd bet that 50-60% military would swing pro-company. (I am completely open to correction here. Just going off my anecdotal data.) Corp, again, tough call. From my discussions in the cockpit it seems age dictates which way these guys swing. If we say 50-50, those numbers combined are not a hard swing in the pilot direction. The young guys, kids in school, funding a 401k, pro-pilot. Guys who's kids are gone, only one wife or the ex- is remarried. Apathetic. Apathy help the company. If they *don't* vote that's a vote for SWA.
I don't want this gig to go away, but I'm not here for charity. I've enough self pride that if we needed to strike, I'm in. I live within my means and could go get a job at Lowes and pay my bills. At lot of the senior capt's and FO's need to fly those big numbers to pay for their stuff. I've no problem if that is the life they want to lead but I don't owe it to them to take a contract I believe is sub-standard to our profession so they can pay for their sh!t.
01-14-2023, 06:28 AM
#15
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2010
Position: DOWNGRADE COMPLETE: Thanks Gary. Thanks SWAPA.
Posts: 6,803
I agree with ya normal. As one of the, now, old guys, who has always looked at this as a job I agree, there are a lot of apathetic dinosaurs here. These are not the 3 and 4 digit numbers from the original Herb days who were here because no one else would hire them. These are just lazy, I have mine so I'm set types.
As a civilian myself I'll bust the civ guys chops harder than the corporate or military. We should know how this industry works. Brother, I'm on your side and i hope the majority are pro-pilot vs pro-company. But, what was the makeup of your class? Was is 50% regional? If so, the other 50% is an unknown, pilot v company sympathizer. IMO, out of training center the military guys tend more pro-company. It's the world they've lived in. Corp, don't know which way they swing. You're never going to have 100% pro-pilot. So if 40% regional guys are pro-pilot that's good. As of now, I'd bet that 50-60% military would swing pro-company. (I am completely open to correction here. Just going off my anecdotal data.) Corp, again, tough call. From my discussions in the cockpit it seems age dictates which way these guys swing. If we say 50-50, those numbers combined are not a hard swing in the pilot direction. The young guys, kids in school, funding a 401k, pro-pilot. Guys who's kids are gone, only one wife or the ex- is remarried. Apathetic. Apathy help the company. If they *don't* vote that's a vote for SWA.
I don't want this gig to go away, but I'm not here for charity. I've enough self pride that if we needed to strike, I'm in. I live within my means and could go get a job at Lowes and pay my bills. At lot of the senior capt's and FO's need to fly those big numbers to pay for their stuff. I've no problem if that is the life they want to lead but I don't owe it to them to take a contract I believe is sub-standard to our profession so they can pay for their sh!t.
As a civilian myself I'll bust the civ guys chops harder than the corporate or military. We should know how this industry works. Brother, I'm on your side and i hope the majority are pro-pilot vs pro-company. But, what was the makeup of your class? Was is 50% regional? If so, the other 50% is an unknown, pilot v company sympathizer. IMO, out of training center the military guys tend more pro-company. It's the world they've lived in. Corp, don't know which way they swing. You're never going to have 100% pro-pilot. So if 40% regional guys are pro-pilot that's good. As of now, I'd bet that 50-60% military would swing pro-company. (I am completely open to correction here. Just going off my anecdotal data.) Corp, again, tough call. From my discussions in the cockpit it seems age dictates which way these guys swing. If we say 50-50, those numbers combined are not a hard swing in the pilot direction. The young guys, kids in school, funding a 401k, pro-pilot. Guys who's kids are gone, only one wife or the ex- is remarried. Apathetic. Apathy help the company. If they *don't* vote that's a vote for SWA.
I don't want this gig to go away, but I'm not here for charity. I've enough self pride that if we needed to strike, I'm in. I live within my means and could go get a job at Lowes and pay my bills. At lot of the senior capt's and FO's need to fly those big numbers to pay for their stuff. I've no problem if that is the life they want to lead but I don't owe it to them to take a contract I believe is sub-standard to our profession so they can pay for their sh!t.
01-14-2023, 06:32 AM
#16
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2010
Position: DOWNGRADE COMPLETE: Thanks Gary. Thanks SWAPA.
Posts: 6,803
FULLY and I mean really FULLY onboard with industry leading pay rates for the inevitable repeat of the over-staffing of 2018. The writing is on the wall with that.
01-14-2023, 07:58 AM
#17
Line Holder
Joined APC: Dec 2016
Posts: 60
It’s the norm now. I still have dozens of contacts in the military and used to get questioned at least monthly about SWA apps/interviews/recs. Nobody’s even been sending us their app probably for at least the last year and a half, unless maybe they’re coming off of helos or non flying job and just need to build time for their resume.
01-14-2023, 01:21 PM
#18
Fly or Die
Joined APC: Jan 2019
Posts: 490
Everyone knows the reason for the meltdown, but the board of directors and/or C-Suite folks want something in writing from a “reputable” source (I say that in quotes because who knows how qualified the advisors will be) to rely on for the next steps they take. It’s their way of trying to discharge fiduciary duties they have in their respective positions.
The big questions, in my mind, are how much SWA management will listen to the right advice after the Christmas meltdown post mortem comes from the advisors, and how fast the changes can get made.
The big questions, in my mind, are how much SWA management will listen to the right advice after the Christmas meltdown post mortem comes from the advisors, and how fast the changes can get made.
Last edited by ESQ702; 01-14-2023 at 01:34 PM.
01-14-2023, 01:46 PM
#19
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2013
Posts: 3,670
Everyone knows the reason for the meltdown, but the board of directors and/or C-Suite folks want something in writing from a “reputable” source (I say that in quotes because who knows how qualified the advisors will be) to rely on for the next steps they take. It’s their way of trying to discharge fiduciary duties they have in their respective positions.
The big questions, in my mind, are how much SWA management will listen to the right advice after the Christmas meltdown post mortem comes from the advisors, and how fast the changes can get made.
The big questions, in my mind, are how much SWA management will listen to the right advice after the Christmas meltdown post mortem comes from the advisors, and how fast the changes can get made.
The new bosses are airline managers, so they already suck, but you do not get the same sense from them at all. I'll just leave it at that. I think that given the right tools they will do a good job managing and leading the airline into the next decade. Prying those tools from the BODs wrinkled hands is another thing. You need ammo and investors on your side to do that. I think that is the opportunity hidden in this crisis.
I am ready for SWAPA to turn up the heat in a big way. It's time for the SWAPA BOD to stop being comfortable. This latest negotiation update has me concerned. It's fun to complain about being stonewalled. We have been doing it for years. It's another thing entirely to do something about it.
01-14-2023, 06:19 PM
#20
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2010
Position: DOWNGRADE COMPLETE: Thanks Gary. Thanks SWAPA.
Posts: 6,803
Another way of thinking of this is that they need ammo to accomplish their strategic plans that the board has been slow rolling them on. A lot can be said about someone by looking them in the eye. You ever sit down with Gary Kelly? I have. It's like being in the room with someone who is clearly uncomfortable and can't wait to leave.
The new bosses are airline managers, so they already suck, but you do not get the same sense from them at all. I'll just leave it at that. I think that given the right tools they will do a good job managing and leading the airline into the next decade. Prying those tools from the BODs wrinkled hands is another thing. You need ammo and investors on your side to do that. I think that is the opportunity hidden in this crisis.
I am ready for SWAPA to turn up the heat in a big way. It's time for the SWAPA BOD to stop being comfortable. This latest negotiation update has me concerned. It's fun to complain about being stonewalled. We have been doing it for years. It's another thing entirely to do something about it.
The new bosses are airline managers, so they already suck, but you do not get the same sense from them at all. I'll just leave it at that. I think that given the right tools they will do a good job managing and leading the airline into the next decade. Prying those tools from the BODs wrinkled hands is another thing. You need ammo and investors on your side to do that. I think that is the opportunity hidden in this crisis.
I am ready for SWAPA to turn up the heat in a big way. It's time for the SWAPA BOD to stop being comfortable. This latest negotiation update has me concerned. It's fun to complain about being stonewalled. We have been doing it for years. It's another thing entirely to do something about it.
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