Delta AIP
12-06-2022, 05:26 AM
#81
weekends off? Nope...
Joined APC: Apr 2014
Posts: 2,021
No offense, but Alaska’s new contract doesn’t even compare to Delta’s AIP in terms of raising the bar. I’m glad it was an improvement for your group, but that’s about it.
12-06-2022, 06:28 AM
#82
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2016
Position: Left
Posts: 1,260
12-06-2022, 06:37 AM
#83
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2011
Posts: 275
How long has SWAPA been waiting for a contract?
12-06-2022, 09:42 AM
#87
Line Holder
Joined APC: Mar 2020
Posts: 84
What may be acceptable for DAL, UAL, AMR, or anyone else, may not be acceptable for us. We have one type, are very efficient, and work harder than most. We don’t have long haulers and the pay and QOL that may come with such equipment.
I will have to fly with a lot of our new hires at some point. I want to attract the very best candidates we can muster. Riddle me this; why should a new candidate choose SWA over DAL when all they can expect to make is DAL 737 top rate, assuming that’s all our negotiations can attain? Worse yet, why should a newly minted new hire choose to stay vs jumping ship to DAL? DAL has equipment that pays more than 737 top rate. And, they may have some QOL improvements that we may not have! The math doesn’t work. Culture alone is not going to work anymore. Just throwing that hot potato out there…
I do not care to rely on any potential POT for compensation calculations or sell jobs. That is mostly a pipe dream for most, especially the junior and new comers. Only the savvy and often well connected can take advantage of these perks. There’s always the probability that we can at times be over staffed and thus, preventing Premium pick up by mere mortals.
I will have to fly with a lot of our new hires at some point. I want to attract the very best candidates we can muster. Riddle me this; why should a new candidate choose SWA over DAL when all they can expect to make is DAL 737 top rate, assuming that’s all our negotiations can attain? Worse yet, why should a newly minted new hire choose to stay vs jumping ship to DAL? DAL has equipment that pays more than 737 top rate. And, they may have some QOL improvements that we may not have! The math doesn’t work. Culture alone is not going to work anymore. Just throwing that hot potato out there…
I do not care to rely on any potential POT for compensation calculations or sell jobs. That is mostly a pipe dream for most, especially the junior and new comers. Only the savvy and often well connected can take advantage of these perks. There’s always the probability that we can at times be over staffed and thus, preventing Premium pick up by mere mortals.
12-06-2022, 09:43 AM
#88
Logbook...
Joined APC: Sep 2008
Posts: 416
12-06-2022, 10:47 AM
#90
On Reserve
Joined APC: Jul 2022
Posts: 17
I have been trying to learn here. So far, I have learned that financial analysis and proper grammar are threatening.
I have also learned how easily these contract negotiations must be for management where the pilot group refuses to educate themselves. Seriously, has nobody done the math? The numbers are all public. You guys should know EXACTLY what the company can afford without risking furlough, how that will affect sales and competition, and how that will will reduce monthly TFP and profit sharing. Every bit of that hits your bank account.
I have read the other forums on the Delta AIP. Everyone just sticks there finger in the wind and says….no, still not enough….or - well, our reps suck compared to their reps…or - I’m a no vote…but it’ll pass with all the $&@ yessies.
Its comical. There is zero analysis, and all the data is RIGHT HERE. Why make it so easy to negotiate against yourselves? I mean, the first guy that comes along and asks a few questions and you guys are wanting to throw me in the moat to see if I float. Good lord. I would have loved to negotiate against this group
I’ll look up the SS4M.
As for FUPM and 5/20, they “may” hurt your cause. On one hand you want to be seen as respected professionals and paid top dollar for your experience (which I agree with!). On the other hand you are making it personal with the guys on the other side of the table, and giving them ammunition to argue privately that you don’t have SWA’s best interest in mind but you are just in it for you. I actually don’t believe thats the case btw, but its been a rough couple of years and everyone is down. I think most pilots here want their company to do great. I think most pilots who chose SWA valued the culture, and so there is a personal level of pain on top of the financial. Its just that 5/20 and FUPM are rallying cries that can easily be used against you, especially to divide you among the other work groups which are paid a fraction of what you are —- while they get to eat $&1t sandwiches everyday working with upset customers who have also had a hard few years on the airlines. I know, I was there.
Which brings me to my last point (as I hear faint echoes in the mist “bring our yer dead” moving my way)…
1221. Look, I TOTALLY understand management screwed the pooch there especially with $$ reserves on hand. They didn’t need to do that. I read last year where the C-Suite delayed some comp (later snapped back) and then tried to get the unions to play ball with a paycut….then they “WARNed 1221 pilots”. Not cool. BUT -
You have let them win again. 1221 should be 6,828 (the number of WARNs sent company wide). They tee’d up a GOLDEN opportunity for solidarity with your fellow workgroups. They literally handed you a rallying cry that would’ve strengthened your leverage company wide and instead of 6,828!, 1,221 was chosen which they can now further use as evidence to divide you as the over-paid work group who doesn’t play well with others.
Now you guys can get smart, do the math, unite with the ENTIRE workforce, and get the BEST contract…or you can continue to stick your fingers in the wind, and ***** about what you get, blame one another and management, while the other side posts your APC threads in their urinals for comic relief…. I’ll be shillin’ with the homies.
(He’s a witch! Burn him!!!!!)
I have also learned how easily these contract negotiations must be for management where the pilot group refuses to educate themselves. Seriously, has nobody done the math? The numbers are all public. You guys should know EXACTLY what the company can afford without risking furlough, how that will affect sales and competition, and how that will will reduce monthly TFP and profit sharing. Every bit of that hits your bank account.
I have read the other forums on the Delta AIP. Everyone just sticks there finger in the wind and says….no, still not enough….or - well, our reps suck compared to their reps…or - I’m a no vote…but it’ll pass with all the $&@ yessies.
Its comical. There is zero analysis, and all the data is RIGHT HERE. Why make it so easy to negotiate against yourselves? I mean, the first guy that comes along and asks a few questions and you guys are wanting to throw me in the moat to see if I float. Good lord. I would have loved to negotiate against this group
I’ll look up the SS4M.
As for FUPM and 5/20, they “may” hurt your cause. On one hand you want to be seen as respected professionals and paid top dollar for your experience (which I agree with!). On the other hand you are making it personal with the guys on the other side of the table, and giving them ammunition to argue privately that you don’t have SWA’s best interest in mind but you are just in it for you. I actually don’t believe thats the case btw, but its been a rough couple of years and everyone is down. I think most pilots here want their company to do great. I think most pilots who chose SWA valued the culture, and so there is a personal level of pain on top of the financial. Its just that 5/20 and FUPM are rallying cries that can easily be used against you, especially to divide you among the other work groups which are paid a fraction of what you are —- while they get to eat $&1t sandwiches everyday working with upset customers who have also had a hard few years on the airlines. I know, I was there.
Which brings me to my last point (as I hear faint echoes in the mist “bring our yer dead” moving my way)…
1221. Look, I TOTALLY understand management screwed the pooch there especially with $$ reserves on hand. They didn’t need to do that. I read last year where the C-Suite delayed some comp (later snapped back) and then tried to get the unions to play ball with a paycut….then they “WARNed 1221 pilots”. Not cool. BUT -
You have let them win again. 1221 should be 6,828 (the number of WARNs sent company wide). They tee’d up a GOLDEN opportunity for solidarity with your fellow workgroups. They literally handed you a rallying cry that would’ve strengthened your leverage company wide and instead of 6,828!, 1,221 was chosen which they can now further use as evidence to divide you as the over-paid work group who doesn’t play well with others.
Now you guys can get smart, do the math, unite with the ENTIRE workforce, and get the BEST contract…or you can continue to stick your fingers in the wind, and ***** about what you get, blame one another and management, while the other side posts your APC threads in their urinals for comic relief…. I’ll be shillin’ with the homies.
(He’s a witch! Burn him!!!!!)
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
