Originally Posted by FAIPMAFIA

Ummm what?! The new rates at Delta would never be seen at southwest. Let’s be honest we all know you guys are just a big ol regional.

Originally Posted by RJSAviator76

Have you ever heard of "psychic wage"? Southwest Airlines has historically run on it. Herb said:

Our recent most CEO has changed this. Right now, at Southwest Airlines, it's the shareholders who come first. It is evident in almost every aspect of our operation, and it is very much felt primarily by the frontline employees. One of the selling points of our airline, according to the management anyway, is that we've never furloughed. I'll let one of the 1221 comment on that, but bottom line was that this was the company's opportunity to shine, and boy did they blow it...
So right now... it's FUPM. I want the industry-leading contract in every aspect, and I'm willing to go on a strike to achieve it.

Originally Posted by e6bpilot

Correct.

Do some reading and be like a mouse...big ears and little mouth. Eventually you will discover the truth. In the meantime, don't ask to be spoon fed. I would never come into a business you own and suggest on the first day that they set it up as a union shop because that's the best way to achieve their goals.

Airlines are unionized for a reason. If you get a little experience in the industry, it won't take long to figure out why.

Originally Posted by Teamroper

Herb was wise. People first will always produce more profits in a customer-facing business, especially one where the “product” is essentially identical between competitors.

I sincerely hope the company (and union) leadership restore what makes SWA unique. It was the reason my company was a loyal customer for our non-private biz travel.

Thanks for the insight.

Originally Posted by Teamroper

Herb was wise. People first will always produce more profits in a customer-facing business, especially one where the “product” is essentially identical between competitors.

I sincerely hope the company (and union) leadership restore what makes SWA unique. It was the reason my company was a loyal customer for our non-private biz travel.

Thanks for the insight.

Originally Posted by arbalist1

I don't believe we'll ever see an 'employees come first' again at a publicly traded company. Over the last few decades, that's become all but illegal. According to U.S. courts and corporate lawyers, shareholders must always come first. Anything less is failure to uphold fiduciary responsibility as a CEO. The only way SWA could become an employee first company again is if employees own 50.1% of voting shares (which isn't impossible). Aside from that, you're going to need some massive shifts in court and overturn a series of rulings.

Originally Posted by RJSAviator76

Have you ever heard of "psychic wage"? Southwest Airlines has historically run on it. Herb said:

Our recent most CEO has changed this. Right now, at Southwest Airlines, it's the shareholders who come first. It is evident in almost every aspect of our operation, and it is very much felt primarily by the frontline employees. One of the selling points of our airline, according to the management anyway, is that we've never furloughed. I'll let one of the 1221 comment on that, but bottom line was that this was the company's opportunity to shine, and boy did they blow it...
So right now... it's FUPM. I want the industry-leading contract in every aspect, and I'm willing to go on a strike to achieve it.

Originally Posted by Teamroper

Help with some math and industry POV.

Some of the proposals here (55-60%) would require a non-negligible increase in fares, headed into an economic downturn.

Does anyone know the average pilot wage spread across the group? It would simplify the math.

EBITDA has run around $4B with net running $2B pre-Covid. A $50k increase across 10,000 pilots is $500MM, or 25% of net (approx 2.5% top-line). I get the sense that a $50k increase on avg is not popular here.

The avg fare for 2019 looks like $128 - ish.

If the goal of the pilot group is $75k avg bump or 100k…has anyone run the math on how that affects sales? How many fewer flight will be flown, and how much will the profit sharing be reduced?

Also, is there any discussion to unite the overall employee groups or encouragement to maximize top-line? I read stuff on here that seems counter-productive to the business. Surely everyone understands more total profits and a better customer experience provided by a united hard-working team gives everyone more bargaining power.

I’m concerned (wondering) about hitching my wagon to a group that isn’t focused on being better than the competition to ensure long-term security and revenue. The pie will shrink in a down-turn but it seems like pilots could set a great tone to grow a bigger share of that pie with the slightest bit of focus on where the bread gets buttered.

What am I missing? Some attitudes here are a death march toward automation, and a divided workforce which is easily beaten in negotiations. Check out the rail deal. No savior for unions regardless of party.

I have ZERO 121 experience. Outsider. Wannabe. Clueless.

Educate me.

Tell me why if I was running the union I wouldn’t want every pilot setting the tone, BELOVED by customers, their kids, and ALL of the other staff groups making it happen? Why wouldn’t I want other pilots from other companies jealous as hell of the SWA experience? Why wouldn’t I want the folks on the ramp feeling appreciated as part of one team, with a culture lead by pilots (who might go toss a bag once in awhile)?

Why wouldn’t I want the PILOTS to be the face of the airline, always supporting the brand? When it comes time for negotiations, NOW you hold the cards at the table because you are more than just an expense, you are the top line.

Maybe I’m crazy but the pilots/team are the ones who see the customers every day, not the CSuite. Why not own that, and control the brand?

As a former employer, its so strange to read about members of the team essentially sabotaging profits. The contract and striking becomes the only leverage…thats so backwards in a customer facing environment where the front line has the ability to OWN the brand. Be undeniable, get paid.

Blast away. I want to understand this beast.

Originally Posted by Teamroper

Help with some math and industry POV.

Some of the proposals here (55-60%) would require a non-negligible increase in fares, headed into an economic downturn.

Does anyone know the average pilot wage spread across the group? It would simplify the math.

EBITDA has run around $4B with net running $2B pre-Covid. A $50k increase across 10,000 pilots is $500MM, or 25% of net (approx 2.5% top-line). I get the sense that a $50k increase on avg is not popular here.

The avg fare for 2019 looks like $128 - ish.

If the goal of the pilot group is $75k avg bump or 100k…has anyone run the math on how that affects sales? How many fewer flight will be flown, and how much will the profit sharing be reduced?

Also, is there any discussion to unite the overall employee groups or encouragement to maximize top-line? I read stuff on here that seems counter-productive to the business. Surely everyone understands more total profits and a better customer experience provided by a united hard-working team gives everyone more bargaining power.

I’m concerned (wondering) about hitching my wagon to a group that isn’t focused on being better than the competition to ensure long-term security and revenue. The pie will shrink in a down-turn but it seems like pilots could set a great tone to grow a bigger share of that pie with the slightest bit of focus on where the bread gets buttered.

What am I missing? Some attitudes here are a death march toward automation, and a divided workforce which is easily beaten in negotiations. Check out the rail deal. No savior for unions regardless of party.

I have ZERO 121 experience. Outsider. Wannabe. Clueless.

Educate me.

Tell me why if I was running the union I wouldn’t want every pilot setting the tone, BELOVED by customers, their kids, and ALL of the other staff groups making it happen? Why wouldn’t I want other pilots from other companies jealous as hell of the SWA experience? Why wouldn’t I want the folks on the ramp feeling appreciated as part of one team, with a culture lead by pilots (who might go toss a bag once in awhile)?

Why wouldn’t I want the PILOTS to be the face of the airline, always supporting the brand? When it comes time for negotiations, NOW you hold the cards at the table because you are more than just an expense, you are the top line.

Maybe I’m crazy but the pilots/team are the ones who see the customers every day, not the CSuite. Why not own that, and control the brand?

As a former employer, its so strange to read about members of the team essentially sabotaging profits. The contract and striking becomes the only leverage…thats so backwards in a customer facing environment where the front line has the ability to OWN the brand. Be undeniable, get paid.

Blast away. I want to understand this beast.

Originally Posted by Teamroper

If every group is out for their own, management will count beans. If there is a united workgroup that elevates the customer experience, doesn’t that carry a monetary value to the shareholder? Wouldn’t pilots command more $$ as beloved leaders of a larger team?