Contract Expectations
11-17-2022, 05:49 AM
#31
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2014
Position: 737-Right
Posts: 781
All speculation: 12-24 months. The economic uncertainty is growing. The company only benefits to drag this out. Coming off of two very strong quarters, why not wait to see what happens over the next 3-9 months and perhaps reclaim some negotiating leverage? They will still fill class seats regardless of our incredibly substandard year 1-5 pay (you will make $200k less here than the legacies year 1-5) because regional pilots still want to move up to the "big leagues" (understandably), mil guys are still separating/retiring, etc.
Nobody wants to go first because they either overpay or they get passed immediately by competitors. Hot take, the regionals are NOT dead. Yes these new contracts are stupid expensive but once the big 4 drop new contracts, it will still be cheap labor. The hub and spoke model relies very heavily on bringing in people from the small markets, this is why the codeshares are willing to pay it. 24 months from now, these regional contracts will still be a fraction of mainline rates.
My pay expectations:
Current converted to hours:
12 yrs CA: $274.03
12 yrs FO: $191.81 (70% of CA)
05 yrs FO: $164.55 (86% of max FO)
01 yrs FO: $84.52 (44% of max FO)
In the year 2000, before all the CONCESSIONARY CONTRACTS, the going rate for a 737 classic Captain at max pay was around $226 per hour. Adjusted for inflation (Source BLS: CPI Index) is $399.
New Rates:
12 yrs CA: $399
12 yrs FO: $279.30
05 yrs FO: $240.20
01 yrs FO: $122.90
Now keep in mind, these rates are only reclaiming the concessions we gave up. This does NOT include a single pay raise or account for the fact that we are flying planes with 30-50 more seats. If we vote yes on anything less than this, we are still taking a massive paycut. Demand what you are worth!
Nobody wants to go first because they either overpay or they get passed immediately by competitors. Hot take, the regionals are NOT dead. Yes these new contracts are stupid expensive but once the big 4 drop new contracts, it will still be cheap labor. The hub and spoke model relies very heavily on bringing in people from the small markets, this is why the codeshares are willing to pay it. 24 months from now, these regional contracts will still be a fraction of mainline rates.
My pay expectations:
Current converted to hours:
12 yrs CA: $274.03
12 yrs FO: $191.81 (70% of CA)
05 yrs FO: $164.55 (86% of max FO)
01 yrs FO: $84.52 (44% of max FO)
In the year 2000, before all the CONCESSIONARY CONTRACTS, the going rate for a 737 classic Captain at max pay was around $226 per hour. Adjusted for inflation (Source BLS: CPI Index) is $399.
New Rates:
12 yrs CA: $399
12 yrs FO: $279.30
05 yrs FO: $240.20
01 yrs FO: $122.90
Now keep in mind, these rates are only reclaiming the concessions we gave up. This does NOT include a single pay raise or account for the fact that we are flying planes with 30-50 more seats. If we vote yes on anything less than this, we are still taking a massive paycut. Demand what you are worth!
Living at base, I'd swing that arbitrary number around to say you'd make 200$k MORE than our legacy friends year 1-5
11-17-2022, 05:53 AM
#32
At your mom's house
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: cpt 737
Posts: 2,798
our 1-5 rates lag others. Couple that with most others can upgrade in that time frame and I'd day 200k short might be well short of what others can make.
11-17-2022, 05:54 AM
#33
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2014
Position: 737-Right
Posts: 781
All speculation: 12-24 months. The economic uncertainty is growing. The company only benefits to drag this out. Coming off of two very strong quarters, why not wait to see what happens over the next 3-9 months and perhaps reclaim some negotiating leverage? They will still fill class seats regardless of our incredibly substandard year 1-5 pay (you will make $200k less here than the legacies year 1-5) because regional pilots still want to move up to the "big leagues" (understandably), mil guys are still separating/retiring, etc.
Nobody wants to go first because they either overpay or they get passed immediately by competitors. Hot take, the regionals are NOT dead. Yes these new contracts are stupid expensive but once the big 4 drop new contracts, it will still be cheap labor. The hub and spoke model relies very heavily on bringing in people from the small markets, this is why the codeshares are willing to pay it. 24 months from now, these regional contracts will still be a fraction of mainline rates.
My pay expectations:
Current converted to hours:
12 yrs CA: $274.03
12 yrs FO: $191.81 (70% of CA)
05 yrs FO: $164.55 (86% of max FO)
01 yrs FO: $84.52 (44% of max FO)
In the year 2000, before all the CONCESSIONARY CONTRACTS, the going rate for a 737 classic Captain at max pay was around $226 per hour. Adjusted for inflation (Source BLS: CPI Index) is $399.
New Rates:
12 yrs CA: $399
12 yrs FO: $279.30
05 yrs FO: $240.20
01 yrs FO: $122.90
Now keep in mind, these rates are only reclaiming the concessions we gave up. This does NOT include a single pay raise or account for the fact that we are flying planes with 30-50 more seats. If we vote yes on anything less than this, we are still taking a massive paycut. Demand what you are worth!
Nobody wants to go first because they either overpay or they get passed immediately by competitors. Hot take, the regionals are NOT dead. Yes these new contracts are stupid expensive but once the big 4 drop new contracts, it will still be cheap labor. The hub and spoke model relies very heavily on bringing in people from the small markets, this is why the codeshares are willing to pay it. 24 months from now, these regional contracts will still be a fraction of mainline rates.
My pay expectations:
Current converted to hours:
12 yrs CA: $274.03
12 yrs FO: $191.81 (70% of CA)
05 yrs FO: $164.55 (86% of max FO)
01 yrs FO: $84.52 (44% of max FO)
In the year 2000, before all the CONCESSIONARY CONTRACTS, the going rate for a 737 classic Captain at max pay was around $226 per hour. Adjusted for inflation (Source BLS: CPI Index) is $399.
New Rates:
12 yrs CA: $399
12 yrs FO: $279.30
05 yrs FO: $240.20
01 yrs FO: $122.90
Now keep in mind, these rates are only reclaiming the concessions we gave up. This does NOT include a single pay raise or account for the fact that we are flying planes with 30-50 more seats. If we vote yes on anything less than this, we are still taking a massive paycut. Demand what you are worth!
Living at base, I'd swing that arbitrary number around to say you'd make 200$k MORE than our legacy friends year 1-5
11-17-2022, 05:55 AM
#35
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2014
Position: 737-Right
Posts: 781
11-17-2022, 06:05 AM
#37
Line Holder
Joined APC: Dec 2016
Posts: 60
Y’all can relax, our days of military guys wanting to come here have passed unless they’re in need of regaining their currency to be competitive elsewhere. We’ll be free to tell our super badass stories of hand flying visuals into NTAs free from interruption with lame combat stories.
Last edited by IA Moose; 11-17-2022 at 06:31 AM.
11-17-2022, 06:49 AM
#38
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2012
Position: 737 CA
Posts: 508
Contract Expectations
I’ve been here just about as long as you. Obviously, there’s people I enjoy flying with more than others, but the true odd ducks (1%ers ) are kind of.rare, and they come from all backgrounds. Maybe it’s just base dependent?
11-17-2022, 07:30 AM
#39
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2014
Position: Just a pilot
Posts: 762
Only took two pages to get to the military bashing… please continue.., 🤙
fwiw… hard no on anything that doesn’t restore us as the most highly paid narrow bodied pilots plus gains in ltd/life insurance etc… willing to go all the way to make sure the contract is re written the right way
fwiw… hard no on anything that doesn’t restore us as the most highly paid narrow bodied pilots plus gains in ltd/life insurance etc… willing to go all the way to make sure the contract is re written the right way
But some of the stories I read in here….if they are true….some guys think way too highly of themselves.
Last edited by tm602; 11-17-2022 at 07:43 AM.
11-17-2022, 07:38 AM
#40
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2014
Position: Just a pilot
Posts: 762
Hahaha. Love it. My favorite is handing the FO my can of water (literally), looking them in the eye and asking them to “hold my beer”, then simultaneously kicking Goerge off and subsequently turning even the FD off on my side.
For all the complaints about the Guppy, she at least hand-flies nicely, especially the Game Changers and MAX8’s.
For all the complaints about the Guppy, she at least hand-flies nicely, especially the Game Changers and MAX8’s.
Had a guy at ACA who dipped and used his soda can as the spittoon. Did exactly as you, except the FO thought it was soda. Thought he’d one-up the CA and drink the soda, not knowing it was spit. Very brief but no doubt violent reaction to the swallow, they made the approach otherwise uneventfully. I guess they can both laugh about it now, but I’m curious to see how the ride to the hotel went.
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