Contract Expectations
01-19-2023, 04:37 PM
#221
7.27%
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: Boeing
Posts: 543
…
Just glad to be here happy to help out willing to show early will work for free don’t squoze the goose we can always pick up an extra turn we don’t have to wear hats or blazers you choose to commute gary will take care of us how about those swag points fly it like a 200 its a dash 8 I’m voting for this TA can’t release you due to irops looks like we’ve got some additional flying for you we’re not going anywhere laser focused right where we want to be 15% ROIC crewhub will be better than those dangerous apps audit complete thank you herb you have my word grace month let me ask the ops agent if there’s a weight problem can you push a wheelchair merry scheduler’s fund grab a muffin the room will be on your board when you land Bugatti DEI fire the rampers fluid on a barge ND40 unprecedented weather system worked beautifully watterson will save us
F
U
P
M
Just glad to be here happy to help out willing to show early will work for free don’t squoze the goose we can always pick up an extra turn we don’t have to wear hats or blazers you choose to commute gary will take care of us how about those swag points fly it like a 200 its a dash 8 I’m voting for this TA can’t release you due to irops looks like we’ve got some additional flying for you we’re not going anywhere laser focused right where we want to be 15% ROIC crewhub will be better than those dangerous apps audit complete thank you herb you have my word grace month let me ask the ops agent if there’s a weight problem can you push a wheelchair merry scheduler’s fund grab a muffin the room will be on your board when you land Bugatti DEI fire the rampers fluid on a barge ND40 unprecedented weather system worked beautifully watterson will save us
F
U
P
M
01-19-2023, 04:45 PM
#222
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2010
Position: DOWNGRADE COMPLETE: Thanks Gary. Thanks SWAPA.
Posts: 6,803
01-20-2023, 09:26 AM
#225
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2014
Position: Just a pilot
Posts: 762
01-21-2023, 07:56 AM
#226
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,027
01-21-2023, 04:21 PM
#227
Weekend Reserve
Joined APC: Oct 2022
Posts: 55
01-21-2023, 06:05 PM
#228
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2018
Posts: 1,264
There’s an excellent article in the current Reporting Point called “Why I Left,” written by a guy who recently left SWA after a few months to go to Delta. IMO, everyone should read what he wrote.
He spent 13 years at the regionals and then came to SWA not very long ago. Though he would’ve liked to have stayed at SWA, he left.
The reason? According to him, the difference in career compensation between SWA and DL, especially when considering the quicker upgrade time at DL and the opportunity to earn wide body pay.
He gave the example of his then 21-year old partner in his E175 transition class back in 2016 at his regional who got hired at DL only nine months ago. He has already been awarded 767/757 Captain. He will be a Captain on a widebody at 27 years old making $272 an hour.
The now former SWA pilot explained he’d be dramatically behind pay-wise had he stayed at SWA because he’d have to wait seven years to upgrade. And even after he could upgrade at SWA - in seven years - he’d still be falling behind given the difference in Captain pay between SWA and DL.
IMO, the key point he made is that, in order to attract and retain pilots, SWA needs the industry leading contract, period. The industry leading narrow body contract won’t do it.
I 100% agree with him.
And, btw, there in NOTHING in the RLA or any other law that requires SWAPA to negotiate our contract based on what anyone or any organization considers to be “industry standard.” There is no law that prohibits us from seeking the world’s leading airline pilot contract, bar none.
The only aspect of the process that the mediator really has control over (to a limited extent) is the timing of mediated negotiation sessions and when to recommend a release to the NMB. Sure, he can lie and intimidate and flatter and threaten and act like he has more authority than he actually has and so on, but his power in that regard is limited by how gullible we are.
Good faith bargaining does not require that we limit our contractual demands to what the company or SWAPA considers “industry standard” or to the bounds of what is considered “narrow body.” It also does not require that we move to the position of the company during negotiations. It basically requires that we show up to negotiate with an open mind and “exert every reasonable effort” to come to an agreement. A perfectly reasonable argument to make is that, given the risk and liability we shoulder as SWA pilots based on the number of takeoffs, landings, and block hours we fly, and given the revenue we produce for the company, we deserve the best pilot contract in the world, period.
In almost every airline contract negotiation, accusations of bad faith bargaining are tossed around. Almost every time, those bad faith bargaining allegations, if they go to court, are shot down because the bar for proving them is exceedingly high. We really don’t need to fear being found in violation of the RLA’s “reasonable effort” clause as the reason to demand only an industry leading narrow body contract.
I’m afraid most of the pilot group doesn’t understand the above. I have literally heard hundreds of times comments like, “We should be the best paid 737 pilots,” or, “We should have the best narrow body contract.” Comments like those are self sabotaging. They make SWAPA believe that we will be satisfied with a “really good” narrow body contract when, in reality, we could likely obtain the best contract, narrow body or wide body.
He spent 13 years at the regionals and then came to SWA not very long ago. Though he would’ve liked to have stayed at SWA, he left.
The reason? According to him, the difference in career compensation between SWA and DL, especially when considering the quicker upgrade time at DL and the opportunity to earn wide body pay.
He gave the example of his then 21-year old partner in his E175 transition class back in 2016 at his regional who got hired at DL only nine months ago. He has already been awarded 767/757 Captain. He will be a Captain on a widebody at 27 years old making $272 an hour.
The now former SWA pilot explained he’d be dramatically behind pay-wise had he stayed at SWA because he’d have to wait seven years to upgrade. And even after he could upgrade at SWA - in seven years - he’d still be falling behind given the difference in Captain pay between SWA and DL.
IMO, the key point he made is that, in order to attract and retain pilots, SWA needs the industry leading contract, period. The industry leading narrow body contract won’t do it.
I 100% agree with him.
And, btw, there in NOTHING in the RLA or any other law that requires SWAPA to negotiate our contract based on what anyone or any organization considers to be “industry standard.” There is no law that prohibits us from seeking the world’s leading airline pilot contract, bar none.
The only aspect of the process that the mediator really has control over (to a limited extent) is the timing of mediated negotiation sessions and when to recommend a release to the NMB. Sure, he can lie and intimidate and flatter and threaten and act like he has more authority than he actually has and so on, but his power in that regard is limited by how gullible we are.
Good faith bargaining does not require that we limit our contractual demands to what the company or SWAPA considers “industry standard” or to the bounds of what is considered “narrow body.” It also does not require that we move to the position of the company during negotiations. It basically requires that we show up to negotiate with an open mind and “exert every reasonable effort” to come to an agreement. A perfectly reasonable argument to make is that, given the risk and liability we shoulder as SWA pilots based on the number of takeoffs, landings, and block hours we fly, and given the revenue we produce for the company, we deserve the best pilot contract in the world, period.
In almost every airline contract negotiation, accusations of bad faith bargaining are tossed around. Almost every time, those bad faith bargaining allegations, if they go to court, are shot down because the bar for proving them is exceedingly high. We really don’t need to fear being found in violation of the RLA’s “reasonable effort” clause as the reason to demand only an industry leading narrow body contract.
I’m afraid most of the pilot group doesn’t understand the above. I have literally heard hundreds of times comments like, “We should be the best paid 737 pilots,” or, “We should have the best narrow body contract.” Comments like those are self sabotaging. They make SWAPA believe that we will be satisfied with a “really good” narrow body contract when, in reality, we could likely obtain the best contract, narrow body or wide body.
01-21-2023, 08:42 PM
#229
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2016
Posts: 524
whole-heartedly disagree. Probies are coming more from the regionals versus the high number of ex mil guys. All the new regional guys have lived for the last few years under 💩 contracts. It’s the mil / corporate guys you need to educate.
01-21-2023, 10:02 PM
#230
Strike averted!
Joined APC: Mar 2015
Position: B737
Posts: 3,789
I agree—many of our newer pilots have done their time in civilian airlines. That being said, the total times are coming way down. It’s up to the group to educate. Also to be said—I’ve recently flown with left seaters that literally think we should forego contract negotiations until economics get better. It’s not always the new guys that are behind the airplane.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
