Contract Expectations
12-13-2022, 04:32 PM
#131
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2013
Posts: 204
"Should" is irrelevant. On-the-job risk (and comfort, ease of work, and schedules) all factor into market-based pay scales.
Other than regionals, we're not exactly market based due to the seniority system. Fundamentally revenue is the primary factor which determines how much we *could* get paid, since airlines obviously can't operate at a loss for long. It's up to us to leverage the union system to our max benefit.
But you may be seriously underestimating how much revenue a widebody can generate... lots of premium seats on those. My swag would be that a legacy widebody pilot generates at least as much revenue on one international flight as a guppy pilot does in a multi-leg day. A widebody pilot working for FDX/UPS most certainly does, whole different league there.
Other than regionals, we're not exactly market based due to the seniority system. Fundamentally revenue is the primary factor which determines how much we *could* get paid, since airlines obviously can't operate at a loss for long. It's up to us to leverage the union system to our max benefit.
But you may be seriously underestimating how much revenue a widebody can generate... lots of premium seats on those. My swag would be that a legacy widebody pilot generates at least as much revenue on one international flight as a guppy pilot does in a multi-leg day. A widebody pilot working for FDX/UPS most certainly does, whole different league there.
12-13-2022, 04:39 PM
#132
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2015
Posts: 643
"Should" is irrelevant. On-the-job risk (and comfort, ease of work, and schedules) all factor into market-based pay scales.
Other than regionals, we're not exactly market based due to the seniority system. Fundamentally revenue is the primary factor which determines how much we *could* get paid, since airlines obviously can't operate at a loss for long. It's up to us to leverage the union system to our max benefit.
But you may be seriously underestimating how much revenue a widebody can generate... lots of premium seats on those. My swag would be that a legacy widebody pilot generates at least as much revenue on one international flight as a guppy pilot does in a multi-leg day. A widebody pilot working for FDX/UPS most certainly does, whole different league there.
Other than regionals, we're not exactly market based due to the seniority system. Fundamentally revenue is the primary factor which determines how much we *could* get paid, since airlines obviously can't operate at a loss for long. It's up to us to leverage the union system to our max benefit.
But you may be seriously underestimating how much revenue a widebody can generate... lots of premium seats on those. My swag would be that a legacy widebody pilot generates at least as much revenue on one international flight as a guppy pilot does in a multi-leg day. A widebody pilot working for FDX/UPS most certainly does, whole different league there.
12-13-2022, 05:03 PM
#133
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2016
Position: Left
Posts: 1,260
"Should" is irrelevant. On-the-job risk (and comfort, ease of work, and schedules) all factor into market-based pay scales.
Other than regionals, we're not exactly market based due to the seniority system. Fundamentally revenue is the primary factor which determines how much we *could* get paid, since airlines obviously can't operate at a loss for long. It's up to us to leverage the union system to our max benefit.
But you may be seriously underestimating how much revenue a widebody can generate... lots of premium seats on those. My swag would be that a legacy widebody pilot generates at least as much revenue on one international flight as a guppy pilot does in a multi-leg day. A widebody pilot working for FDX/UPS most certainly does, whole different league there.
Other than regionals, we're not exactly market based due to the seniority system. Fundamentally revenue is the primary factor which determines how much we *could* get paid, since airlines obviously can't operate at a loss for long. It's up to us to leverage the union system to our max benefit.
But you may be seriously underestimating how much revenue a widebody can generate... lots of premium seats on those. My swag would be that a legacy widebody pilot generates at least as much revenue on one international flight as a guppy pilot does in a multi-leg day. A widebody pilot working for FDX/UPS most certainly does, whole different league there.
You may be seriously be underestimating how much revenue a SWA PILOT brings to LUV .
12-13-2022, 05:09 PM
#134
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 40,124
So you are admitting that a widebody (2 legs in 3 days) pilot quite possibly generates the same revenue per day of work than a SW guppy pilot? Interesting. I agree. That should definitely equate to the SW guppy pilot making 50% more than the widebody pilot since he works all three of those days on a 3 day trip vs the 2 out of 3 of the widebody guy.
12-13-2022, 05:18 PM
#135
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2018
Posts: 1,264
Other than regionals, we're not exactly market based due to the seniority system. Fundamentally revenue is the primary factor which determines how much we *could* get paid, since airlines obviously can't operate at a loss for long. It's up to us to leverage the union system to our max benefit..
There is nothing in the law that requires us to base our compensation on RASM or risk or any other metric that management would like us to buy into.
The law provides very wide latitude for what is considered good faith bargaining. Good faith bargaining does not require us to not appear to be “greedy” nor does it require us to give something to get something.
Like Rick was getting at, it does require our demands to have some connection to reality. If our demands were so high that the company would no kidding be bankrupted if we succeeded in achieving our demands, that would probably exceed the limits of good faith bargaining.
Beyond that, though, we are free to be “greedy” and demand compensation that management or others might label as exorbitant.
12-13-2022, 06:59 PM
#136
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2005
Position: 737 FO
Posts: 270
12-14-2022, 05:51 AM
#137
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2005
Posts: 1,275
I was about to say this.
I was at United before my current gig. On a 747 going from ORD-NRT, the belly freight would pay for the flight, plus one million dollars in profit. The passengers up top were just icing on the cake. That plane would make money even if there were zero passengers. Now you add in 18 FC seats at around $10,000 per and 60 BC seats at $4,000 a pop then 300+ EC seats…
I’d love to see real numbers on that. But bottom line, on those international widebody flights, the cargo they carry is way more important than the passengers.
I was at United before my current gig. On a 747 going from ORD-NRT, the belly freight would pay for the flight, plus one million dollars in profit. The passengers up top were just icing on the cake. That plane would make money even if there were zero passengers. Now you add in 18 FC seats at around $10,000 per and 60 BC seats at $4,000 a pop then 300+ EC seats…
I’d love to see real numbers on that. But bottom line, on those international widebody flights, the cargo they carry is way more important than the passengers.
12-14-2022, 06:56 AM
#139
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2015
Posts: 643
I was about to say this.
I was at United before my current gig. On a 747 going from ORD-NRT, the belly freight would pay for the flight, plus one million dollars in profit. The passengers up top were just icing on the cake. That plane would make money even if there were zero passengers. Now you add in 18 FC seats at around $10,000 per and 60 BC seats at $4,000 a pop then 300+ EC seats…
I’d love to see real numbers on that. But bottom line, on those international widebody flights, the cargo they carry is way more important than the passengers.
I was at United before my current gig. On a 747 going from ORD-NRT, the belly freight would pay for the flight, plus one million dollars in profit. The passengers up top were just icing on the cake. That plane would make money even if there were zero passengers. Now you add in 18 FC seats at around $10,000 per and 60 BC seats at $4,000 a pop then 300+ EC seats…
I’d love to see real numbers on that. But bottom line, on those international widebody flights, the cargo they carry is way more important than the passengers.
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