Make bank at Mesa!
08-28-2022, 04:31 PM
#11
Furloughed Again?!
Joined APC: Aug 2007
Position: Boeing 737
Posts: 4,804
There’s an argument to be made to file for mediation at our current point in negotiations, and the latest SWAPA negotiating update made clear that debate is occurring now by the board of directors. However…. The idea that we should have filed for mediation at some point over the past two years, when load factors were 5-50%, and the company was blowing through $Billions a quarter of government money and still showing a loss is just asinine.
You can demand a contract all you want but that doesn’t mean you’ll get one. Personally I’d much rather ink a deal a year from now when the company can’t use Covid as an excuse not to pay us then today and be the first airline out of the gate and watch all the other legacies sign more lucrative deals in our wake.
You can demand a contract all you want but that doesn’t mean you’ll get one. Personally I’d much rather ink a deal a year from now when the company can’t use Covid as an excuse not to pay us then today and be the first airline out of the gate and watch all the other legacies sign more lucrative deals in our wake.
(Edit: good points by Lebronski below regarding time in mediation though)
08-28-2022, 04:38 PM
#12
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Feb 2018
Posts: 1,264
There’s an argument to be made to file for mediation at our current point in negotiations, and the latest SWAPA negotiating update made clear that debate is occurring now by the board of directors. However…. The idea that we should have filed for mediation at some point over the past two years, when load factors were 5-50%, and the company was blowing through $Billions a quarter of government money and still showing a loss is just asinine.
You can demand a contract all you want but that doesn’t mean you’ll get one. Personally I’d much rather ink a deal a year from now when the company can’t use Covid as an excuse not to pay us then today and be the first airline out of the gate and watch all the other legacies sign more lucrative deals in our wake.
You can demand a contract all you want but that doesn’t mean you’ll get one. Personally I’d much rather ink a deal a year from now when the company can’t use Covid as an excuse not to pay us then today and be the first airline out of the gate and watch all the other legacies sign more lucrative deals in our wake.
In some respects, operating effectively in a RLA environment, which, like it or not, is the environment we operate in, can be viewed as playing a game. Part of playing the RLA game is starting the mediation timer. In cases that have gone before the courts involving questions of a release from mediation, “time in mediation” is weighed far more heavily than “time in negotiations.”
Unfortunately, very few in our pilot group have looked very deeply into the RLA and how it works to understand basic concepts like this. The only thing, in terms of playing the RLA game, that we must watch out for is filing for mediation so early in the process that we appear to be trying to short-circuit the system. Again, much of this is gamesmanship. Reference the NMB’s 2010 “Dunlop Report.”
08-28-2022, 05:29 PM
#13
Gets Weekend Reserve
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,776
There’s an argument to be made to file for mediation at our current point in negotiations, and the latest SWAPA negotiating update made clear that debate is occurring now by the board of directors. However…. The idea that we should have filed for mediation at some point over the past two years, when load factors were 5-50%, and the company was blowing through $Billions a quarter of government money and still showing a loss is just asinine.
You can demand a contract all you want but that doesn’t mean you’ll get one. Personally I’d much rather ink a deal a year from now when the company can’t use Covid as an excuse not to pay us then today and be the first airline out of the gate and watch all the other legacies sign more lucrative deals in our wake.
You can demand a contract all you want but that doesn’t mean you’ll get one. Personally I’d much rather ink a deal a year from now when the company can’t use Covid as an excuse not to pay us then today and be the first airline out of the gate and watch all the other legacies sign more lucrative deals in our wake.
08-28-2022, 07:41 PM
#14
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,920
Easily addressed by having a me-too clause if we get leap-frogged. There's an industry precedent of this. I don't mind going first, especially considering that United ALPA has gone full retard with this Tumi TA crap and have a parity clause with Delta and United should they leapfrog us within a specified timeframe. But then again, given this MDW rep debacle, I'm not holding much hope for "SWAPA 2.0" either.
08-29-2022, 01:37 AM
#15
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2016
Position: Left
Posts: 1,260
The MDW rep who wrote a comm letter to the base slamming the CP. She starts by telling how she did not get the asst CP job she interviewed for back in 2016 ,then goes on to say how she was treated in the 2016 during the interview .
You can go on the SWAPA website and read the letter
08-29-2022, 07:09 AM
#16
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,920
The MDW rep who wrote a comm letter to the base slamming the CP. She starts by telling how she did not get the asst CP job she interviewed for back in 2016 ,then goes on to say how she was treated in the 2016 during the interview .
You can go on the SWAPA website and read the letter
You can go on the SWAPA website and read the letter
08-29-2022, 09:05 PM
#17
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2021
Posts: 328
Thats not the point. My point, at least, is that, right now, Mesa - MESA!!! - is nearly at parity with us in terms of rates. Let that sink in: Mesa, the bottom feeder of bottom feeder airlines run by the notoriously shady and pilot-hating Jonathan Ornstein has seen fit to offer their pilots rates that are competitive with us, a “major” airline with a “major league” union to advocate for us.
Meanwhile, over at the airline of “luv” and the “golden rule” with the “hardcore” SWAPA “2.0,” we dither. SWAPA can’t get its act together enough to have even filed mediation in the last two-plus years of negotiations nor take any significant action to compel the company to respond in a positive fashion to our contractual “demands.” But, boy, are those pickets intimidating! We are in danger of being lapped by regional airlines while we happily stagnate with our thumb planted warmly in our backside.
Meanwhile, over at the airline of “luv” and the “golden rule” with the “hardcore” SWAPA “2.0,” we dither. SWAPA can’t get its act together enough to have even filed mediation in the last two-plus years of negotiations nor take any significant action to compel the company to respond in a positive fashion to our contractual “demands.” But, boy, are those pickets intimidating! We are in danger of being lapped by regional airlines while we happily stagnate with our thumb planted warmly in our backside.
08-29-2022, 09:08 PM
#18
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2021
Posts: 328
This post is representative of part of the problem with our pilot group. The point of entering mediation earlier rather than later is because “time in mediation” matters. The idea is to start the clock because typically the NMB will not even begin to consider a release from mediation until roughly 2.5 years have been spent in mediation (though the latest episode with the railroads may indicate that the NMB is turning over a new leaf). Had we filed for mediation 18 months ago, we would still be about a year away from maybe being considered for release. If we file for mediation today, it’s at least 2.5 years away (again, unless the NMB has changed its tune).
In some respects, operating effectively in a RLA environment, which, like it or not, is the environment we operate in, can be viewed as playing a game. Part of playing the RLA game is starting the mediation timer. In cases that have gone before the courts involving questions of a release from mediation, “time in mediation” is weighed far more heavily than “time in negotiations.”
Unfortunately, very few in our pilot group have looked very deeply into the RLA and how it works to understand basic concepts like this. The only thing, in terms of playing the RLA game, that we must watch out for is filing for mediation so early in the process that we appear to be trying to short-circuit the system. Again, much of this is gamesmanship. Reference the NMB’s 2010 “Dunlop Report.”
In some respects, operating effectively in a RLA environment, which, like it or not, is the environment we operate in, can be viewed as playing a game. Part of playing the RLA game is starting the mediation timer. In cases that have gone before the courts involving questions of a release from mediation, “time in mediation” is weighed far more heavily than “time in negotiations.”
Unfortunately, very few in our pilot group have looked very deeply into the RLA and how it works to understand basic concepts like this. The only thing, in terms of playing the RLA game, that we must watch out for is filing for mediation so early in the process that we appear to be trying to short-circuit the system. Again, much of this is gamesmanship. Reference the NMB’s 2010 “Dunlop Report.”
08-29-2022, 10:32 PM
#19
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jun 2016
Posts: 26
We will be fine. Once again, no other major airline has renewed their contract. I wouldn’t even worry about regionals. Is it weird that they are getting paid the same…yes…but have confidence in the process. We will get ours. If we rush and make a bad deal what good is that in the long run? It’s a long term game. Until Delta/FedEx/United/American start getting something, no reason to panic. But I do agree we should definitely get something sooner than later
08-30-2022, 03:42 AM
#20
Gets Weekend Reserve
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,776
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