Epoch Times article... oh boy
08-12-2022, 10:52 PM
#41
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2017
Position: 737 FO
Posts: 989
My values are not reflected in Southwest Airline’s “culture,” so I quickly decided that I would take care of myself and everyone else can handle their own business.
08-12-2022, 11:28 PM
#43
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2022
Posts: 1,190
Wait till you get blindsided like so many of our pilots. It's enough right now for some "protected" person to merely make an accusation, and you're fighting for your job. I don't think SWAPA would be asking for separate hotels if the problems were very much isolated and rare.
I also have some experience with these types of accusations which thankfully didn't go beyond the initial reaction and exchange. Did you know it's considered sexist to offer your hand to help a FA off the crew van? Forget chivalry or being a gentleman... that is a sexist act. Go figure. And if you paid attention to your harassment training modules, the fact that your intent was to help the FA not taking a face plant is irrelevant. The only relevant thing is how your action was perceived. Oh, and in these woke times, it can be reported by a third person who is uninvolved but witnessed the act and takes offense.
I think it goes a tad beyond "not being an arse."
I also have some experience with these types of accusations which thankfully didn't go beyond the initial reaction and exchange. Did you know it's considered sexist to offer your hand to help a FA off the crew van? Forget chivalry or being a gentleman... that is a sexist act. Go figure. And if you paid attention to your harassment training modules, the fact that your intent was to help the FA not taking a face plant is irrelevant. The only relevant thing is how your action was perceived. Oh, and in these woke times, it can be reported by a third person who is uninvolved but witnessed the act and takes offense.
I think it goes a tad beyond "not being an arse."
08-13-2022, 12:03 AM
#44
Strike averted!
Joined APC: Mar 2015
Position: B737
Posts: 3,789
i sit in the middle now.
08-13-2022, 12:08 AM
#46
Strike averted!
Joined APC: Mar 2015
Position: B737
Posts: 3,789
I’m telling you the van ride is the most dangerous part of the trip. Same year in Indy, driver from Kenya hauls ass onto the interstate which was frozen solid. Not much ice on the Kenyan highways he said later. We did a no kidding 360 and ended up on the median guard rail with tractor trailers doing slow motion collisions all over.
Buckle up. I hear the rumors all the time that no seatbelt equals no insurance.
Buckle up. I hear the rumors all the time that no seatbelt equals no insurance.
08-13-2022, 02:28 AM
#47
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2010
Position: DOWNGRADE COMPLETE: Thanks Gary. Thanks SWAPA.
Posts: 6,803
08-13-2022, 04:26 AM
#48
Spikes the Koolaid
Joined APC: Jul 2015
Position: 737
Posts: 403
I’m telling you the van ride is the most dangerous part of the trip. Same year in Indy, driver from Kenya hauls ass onto the interstate which was frozen solid. Not much ice on the Kenyan highways he said later. We did a no kidding 360 and ended up on the median guard rail with tractor trailers doing slow motion collisions all over.
Buckle up. I hear the rumors all the time that no seatbelt equals no insurance.
Buckle up. I hear the rumors all the time that no seatbelt equals no insurance.
I also sit in the back of the van to minimize 3 am socializing, but when I have to sit up front because of circumstances like me getting down to the van just before the buzzer, I USED to offer my hand to everybody, males included, to get around the possible sexism claims (and it's all on camera). I don't any more: not because I'm afraid of getting written up for being sexist, but because I have no faith in the company that they won't fire/sue me if the person still trips or falls and gets injured. Same thing with wheel chairs and why I don't do that anymore.
08-13-2022, 04:38 AM
#49
Spikes the Koolaid
Joined APC: Jul 2015
Position: 737
Posts: 403
Nope, not my first day at the airlines and I stand by what I said. That has not been my experience. Yours obviously has been different. You can believe what I said or not, I don’t really care. I do agree there’s work that needs to be done, on BOTH sides. You are saying there’s work that needs to be done on ONE side. I really just get sick of the “I’m a thought cop” that not only exists at the airlines these days but in society in general. Everyone’s thoughts and facial expressions are dissected and over analyzed to an insane degree these days. You can’t just go to work and be an employee anymore. We have to be divided into these little groups, “identities.”
Are you saying that the employees in this article don’t have legitimate, right to speak up about it, complaints? You think conservatives are supposed to just shut up? And not push back against blatant WRONGDOING? Notice how you just downplay everything they mentioned, and are saying basically, that those employees mentioned and the negative experiences they had, are the fault of the people you are talking about. When it is the fault of “WOKENESS,” and woke “culture.” Too many people are afraid to stand up to woke culture. What you’re basically saying is, “well, I know the Pro life flight attendant got fired for her religious views, but, that doesn’t really mean anything.” That’s not right. There is a reason she won that lawsuit. Why do libs who identify as something they are NOT, get away with stuff but conservatives who make off handed remarks get a talking to at the least, and at the very worst, fired. The pendulum is swinging the other way here these days, and it’s going in the direction of “wokeness.” You are talking about the other end of the extreme, I am telling you that it is actually MOVING to the extreme in the OPPOSITE direction. And that can’t be good for the morale and wellbeing of airline staff, and customers. Sure, I’ll give it to you that back in the 60’s, 70’s, and 80’s, there was rampant sexism among white male pilots towards women. But that is not the case anymore dude. I have only seen what your talking about with ONE person. And many males including myself couldn’t STAND this guy.
Are you saying that the employees in this article don’t have legitimate, right to speak up about it, complaints? You think conservatives are supposed to just shut up? And not push back against blatant WRONGDOING? Notice how you just downplay everything they mentioned, and are saying basically, that those employees mentioned and the negative experiences they had, are the fault of the people you are talking about. When it is the fault of “WOKENESS,” and woke “culture.” Too many people are afraid to stand up to woke culture. What you’re basically saying is, “well, I know the Pro life flight attendant got fired for her religious views, but, that doesn’t really mean anything.” That’s not right. There is a reason she won that lawsuit. Why do libs who identify as something they are NOT, get away with stuff but conservatives who make off handed remarks get a talking to at the least, and at the very worst, fired. The pendulum is swinging the other way here these days, and it’s going in the direction of “wokeness.” You are talking about the other end of the extreme, I am telling you that it is actually MOVING to the extreme in the OPPOSITE direction. And that can’t be good for the morale and wellbeing of airline staff, and customers. Sure, I’ll give it to you that back in the 60’s, 70’s, and 80’s, there was rampant sexism among white male pilots towards women. But that is not the case anymore dude. I have only seen what your talking about with ONE person. And many males including myself couldn’t STAND this guy.
I'm also 100% a no vote unless we get separate hotels for a lot of reasons, one of them being frivolous write ups or being written up for something the other pilot says, like this other personally witnessed gem in the last two months: "one of the pilots was talking loudly about how BLM is a terrorist organization with the van driver" while in the van with three African American flight attendants. The conversation actually happened, don't know if the FAs wrote him up.
I don't care what your views on BLM are, follow the real Golden Rule of not talking about politics, sex, or religion at work, and have some situational awareness. And how often could you with complete certainty identify which person made a statement on a 3am van ride when you hear something crazy while looking at your phone? Nope. Don't want to be written up by association or mistakenly. Same reason I change the 3rd comm panel to "VHF 2" instead of flight or intercom every time I power up an airplane.
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