UAL TA
06-27-2022, 06:33 AM
#1
gets time off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,234
UAL TA
Let this sink in…
Here is some perspective on the new United rates
from the Wall Street Journal.
Generous as the offer may
seem, the pay increase isn't
all that much higher than the
consumer-price index, which
last month increased 8.6%
over the last year. After
inflation, the 14.5% raise
amounts to about a 1.6%
increase over 18 months. For
pilots who live in Sun Belt
areas where inflation is
running hotter than 10%,
such as Phoenix, it's a decline
in real wages if inflation
stays this hot through the
next year.
And that’s using there already agreed to 5%.
Here is some perspective on the new United rates
from the Wall Street Journal.
Generous as the offer may
seem, the pay increase isn't
all that much higher than the
consumer-price index, which
last month increased 8.6%
over the last year. After
inflation, the 14.5% raise
amounts to about a 1.6%
increase over 18 months. For
pilots who live in Sun Belt
areas where inflation is
running hotter than 10%,
such as Phoenix, it's a decline
in real wages if inflation
stays this hot through the
next year.
And that’s using there already agreed to 5%.
06-27-2022, 06:51 AM
#2
Gets Weekend Reserve
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,776
Also, note the pressure by which they need to vote on it and compare it to the Company's Q2 report. Is their version of CK running their union?
I already told my reps to not bother bringing us anything remotely resembling this United garbage. Not only do I hope they shoot it down by a wide margin, but whoever brought this garbage forward and signed off on it should be recalled and sent back to the line.
I already told my reps to not bother bringing us anything remotely resembling this United garbage. Not only do I hope they shoot it down by a wide margin, but whoever brought this garbage forward and signed off on it should be recalled and sent back to the line.
06-27-2022, 08:50 AM
#3
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2018
Posts: 1,264
On their APC forum, the UA guys are pretty fired up about the move up of the reserve window from 1000 on the first day of reserve to an earlier time - 0600 (I think). The implication of this is that it makes reserve for commuters that much worse because it would make it impossible to commute in on the first day. It also removes premium pay opportunities from more senior guys because those earlier morning trips are now going to be assigned to reserves vs taken at premium by more senior folks.
Also, their TA allows retired guys to work at their training center, which 1) is a huge scope concession for them, and 2) allows the company to address two of their most pressing needs (the training center backlog and staff shortage) without any kind of commensurate “win” for the pilots.
AND! They apparently get a free Tumi suitcase as a signing bonus. Unreal. It’s almost like the muffin man story.
It’s pretty evident to me given the turd TA that was produced that their MEC, execs, and NC have completely lost touch with reality and need to be recalled.
I’ve made a point of this over on the UA forum several times - the UA pilots have been in negotiations for more than 3.5 years now. During that entire time, they never filed for mediation. That’s further evidence, absent a really, really good reason that hasn’t been explained, of a union that doesn’t get it.
That means they have posed zero threat of ever being able to threaten any kind of legal self help to UA. Mediation must be gone through to be able to pose that threat.
There is almost no downside to filing for mediation. You can still meet with the company outside of scheduled mediation sessions, you can still picket, and you can still engage in the (illegal) sickouts and work slowdowns that many pilots seem to prefer. It doesn’t close any doors.
Filing for mediation starts the timer ticking toward the possibility of a release from mediation and potentially, legal self help. It opens that door.
Not filing for mediation means that you’re choosing to cut yourself off from being able to have access to perhaps the strongest leverage available to labor. You’re closing that door on yourself. Note: we are not in mediation yet.
If the UA TA passes, in terms of pattern bargaining, it’s bad for our entire profession. It will lower the bar and make it harder for our NC to achieve our goals.
Also, their TA allows retired guys to work at their training center, which 1) is a huge scope concession for them, and 2) allows the company to address two of their most pressing needs (the training center backlog and staff shortage) without any kind of commensurate “win” for the pilots.
AND! They apparently get a free Tumi suitcase as a signing bonus. Unreal. It’s almost like the muffin man story.
It’s pretty evident to me given the turd TA that was produced that their MEC, execs, and NC have completely lost touch with reality and need to be recalled.
I’ve made a point of this over on the UA forum several times - the UA pilots have been in negotiations for more than 3.5 years now. During that entire time, they never filed for mediation. That’s further evidence, absent a really, really good reason that hasn’t been explained, of a union that doesn’t get it.
That means they have posed zero threat of ever being able to threaten any kind of legal self help to UA. Mediation must be gone through to be able to pose that threat.
There is almost no downside to filing for mediation. You can still meet with the company outside of scheduled mediation sessions, you can still picket, and you can still engage in the (illegal) sickouts and work slowdowns that many pilots seem to prefer. It doesn’t close any doors.
Filing for mediation starts the timer ticking toward the possibility of a release from mediation and potentially, legal self help. It opens that door.
Not filing for mediation means that you’re choosing to cut yourself off from being able to have access to perhaps the strongest leverage available to labor. You’re closing that door on yourself. Note: we are not in mediation yet.
If the UA TA passes, in terms of pattern bargaining, it’s bad for our entire profession. It will lower the bar and make it harder for our NC to achieve our goals.
06-27-2022, 11:34 AM
#4
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2015
Posts: 280
On their APC forum, the UA guys are pretty fired up about the move up of the reserve window from 1000 on the first day of reserve to an earlier time - 0600 (I think). The implication of this is that it makes reserve for commuters that much worse because it would make it impossible to commute in on the first day. It also removes premium pay opportunities from more senior guys because those earlier morning trips are now going to be assigned to reserves vs taken at premium by more senior folks.
Also, their TA allows retired guys to work at their training center, which 1) is a huge scope concession for them, and 2) allows the company to address two of their most pressing needs (the training center backlog and staff shortage) without any kind of commensurate “win” for the pilots.
AND! They apparently get a free Tumi suitcase as a signing bonus. Unreal. It’s almost like the muffin man story.
It’s pretty evident to me given the turd TA that was produced that their MEC, execs, and NC have completely lost touch with reality and need to be recalled.
I’ve made a point of this over on the UA forum several times - the UA pilots have been in negotiations for more than 3.5 years now. During that entire time, they never filed for mediation. That’s further evidence, absent a really, really good reason that hasn’t been explained, of a union that doesn’t get it.
That means they have posed zero threat of ever being able to threaten any kind of legal self help to UA. Mediation must be gone through to be able to pose that threat.
There is almost no downside to filing for mediation. You can still meet with the company outside of scheduled mediation sessions, you can still picket, and you can still engage in the (illegal) sickouts and work slowdowns that many pilots seem to prefer. It doesn’t close any doors.
Filing for mediation starts the timer ticking toward the possibility of a release from mediation and potentially, legal self help. It opens that door.
Not filing for mediation means that you’re choosing to cut yourself off from being able to have access to perhaps the strongest leverage available to labor. You’re closing that door on yourself. Note: we are not in mediation yet.
If the UA TA passes, in terms of pattern bargaining, it’s bad for our entire profession. It will lower the bar and make it harder for our NC to achieve our goals.
Also, their TA allows retired guys to work at their training center, which 1) is a huge scope concession for them, and 2) allows the company to address two of their most pressing needs (the training center backlog and staff shortage) without any kind of commensurate “win” for the pilots.
AND! They apparently get a free Tumi suitcase as a signing bonus. Unreal. It’s almost like the muffin man story.
It’s pretty evident to me given the turd TA that was produced that their MEC, execs, and NC have completely lost touch with reality and need to be recalled.
I’ve made a point of this over on the UA forum several times - the UA pilots have been in negotiations for more than 3.5 years now. During that entire time, they never filed for mediation. That’s further evidence, absent a really, really good reason that hasn’t been explained, of a union that doesn’t get it.
That means they have posed zero threat of ever being able to threaten any kind of legal self help to UA. Mediation must be gone through to be able to pose that threat.
There is almost no downside to filing for mediation. You can still meet with the company outside of scheduled mediation sessions, you can still picket, and you can still engage in the (illegal) sickouts and work slowdowns that many pilots seem to prefer. It doesn’t close any doors.
Filing for mediation starts the timer ticking toward the possibility of a release from mediation and potentially, legal self help. It opens that door.
Not filing for mediation means that you’re choosing to cut yourself off from being able to have access to perhaps the strongest leverage available to labor. You’re closing that door on yourself. Note: we are not in mediation yet.
If the UA TA passes, in terms of pattern bargaining, it’s bad for our entire profession. It will lower the bar and make it harder for our NC to achieve our goals.
06-27-2022, 12:01 PM
#5
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2015
Position: Gear slinger
Posts: 2,963
On their APC forum, the UA guys are pretty fired up about the move up of the reserve window from 1000 on the first day of reserve to an earlier time - 0600 (I think). The implication of this is that it makes reserve for commuters that much worse because it would make it impossible to commute in on the first day. It also removes premium pay opportunities from more senior guys because those earlier morning trips are now going to be assigned to reserves vs taken at premium by more senior folks.
Also, their TA allows retired guys to work at their training center, which 1) is a huge scope concession for them, and 2) allows the company to address two of their most pressing needs (the training center backlog and staff shortage) without any kind of commensurate “win” for the pilots.
AND! They apparently get a free Tumi suitcase as a signing bonus. Unreal. It’s almost like the muffin man story.
It’s pretty evident to me given the turd TA that was produced that their MEC, execs, and NC have completely lost touch with reality and need to be recalled.
I’ve made a point of this over on the UA forum several times - the UA pilots have been in negotiations for more than 3.5 years now. During that entire time, they never filed for mediation. That’s further evidence, absent a really, really good reason that hasn’t been explained, of a union that doesn’t get it.
That means they have posed zero threat of ever being able to threaten any kind of legal self help to UA. Mediation must be gone through to be able to pose that threat.
There is almost no downside to filing for mediation. You can still meet with the company outside of scheduled mediation sessions, you can still picket, and you can still engage in the (illegal) sickouts and work slowdowns that many pilots seem to prefer. It doesn’t close any doors.
Filing for mediation starts the timer ticking toward the possibility of a release from mediation and potentially, legal self help. It opens that door.
Not filing for mediation means that you’re choosing to cut yourself off from being able to have access to perhaps the strongest leverage available to labor. You’re closing that door on yourself. Note: we are not in mediation yet.
If the UA TA passes, in terms of pattern bargaining, it’s bad for our entire profession. It will lower the bar and make it harder for our NC to achieve our goals.
Also, their TA allows retired guys to work at their training center, which 1) is a huge scope concession for them, and 2) allows the company to address two of their most pressing needs (the training center backlog and staff shortage) without any kind of commensurate “win” for the pilots.
AND! They apparently get a free Tumi suitcase as a signing bonus. Unreal. It’s almost like the muffin man story.
It’s pretty evident to me given the turd TA that was produced that their MEC, execs, and NC have completely lost touch with reality and need to be recalled.
I’ve made a point of this over on the UA forum several times - the UA pilots have been in negotiations for more than 3.5 years now. During that entire time, they never filed for mediation. That’s further evidence, absent a really, really good reason that hasn’t been explained, of a union that doesn’t get it.
That means they have posed zero threat of ever being able to threaten any kind of legal self help to UA. Mediation must be gone through to be able to pose that threat.
There is almost no downside to filing for mediation. You can still meet with the company outside of scheduled mediation sessions, you can still picket, and you can still engage in the (illegal) sickouts and work slowdowns that many pilots seem to prefer. It doesn’t close any doors.
Filing for mediation starts the timer ticking toward the possibility of a release from mediation and potentially, legal self help. It opens that door.
Not filing for mediation means that you’re choosing to cut yourself off from being able to have access to perhaps the strongest leverage available to labor. You’re closing that door on yourself. Note: we are not in mediation yet.
If the UA TA passes, in terms of pattern bargaining, it’s bad for our entire profession. It will lower the bar and make it harder for our NC to achieve our goals.
06-27-2022, 12:05 PM
#6
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2015
Posts: 643
On their APC forum, the UA guys are pretty fired up about the move up of the reserve window from 1000 on the first day of reserve to an earlier time - 0600 (I think). The implication of this is that it makes reserve for commuters that much worse because it would make it impossible to commute in on the first day. It also removes premium pay opportunities from more senior guys because those earlier morning trips are now going to be assigned to reserves vs taken at premium by more senior folks.
Also, their TA allows retired guys to work at their training center, which 1) is a huge scope concession for them, and 2) allows the company to address two of their most pressing needs (the training center backlog and staff shortage) without any kind of commensurate “win” for the pilots.
AND! They apparently get a free Tumi suitcase as a signing bonus. Unreal. It’s almost like the muffin man story.
It’s pretty evident to me given the turd TA that was produced that their MEC, execs, and NC have completely lost touch with reality and need to be recalled.
I’ve made a point of this over on the UA forum several times - the UA pilots have been in negotiations for more than 3.5 years now. During that entire time, they never filed for mediation. That’s further evidence, absent a really, really good reason that hasn’t been explained, of a union that doesn’t get it.
That means they have posed zero threat of ever being able to threaten any kind of legal self help to UA. Mediation must be gone through to be able to pose that threat.
There is almost no downside to filing for mediation. You can still meet with the company outside of scheduled mediation sessions, you can still picket, and you can still engage in the (illegal) sickouts and work slowdowns that many pilots seem to prefer. It doesn’t close any doors.
Filing for mediation starts the timer ticking toward the possibility of a release from mediation and potentially, legal self help. It opens that door.
Not filing for mediation means that you’re choosing to cut yourself off from being able to have access to perhaps the strongest leverage available to labor. You’re closing that door on yourself. Note: we are not in mediation yet.
If the UA TA passes, in terms of pattern bargaining, it’s bad for our entire profession. It will lower the bar and make it harder for our NC to achieve our goals.
Also, their TA allows retired guys to work at their training center, which 1) is a huge scope concession for them, and 2) allows the company to address two of their most pressing needs (the training center backlog and staff shortage) without any kind of commensurate “win” for the pilots.
AND! They apparently get a free Tumi suitcase as a signing bonus. Unreal. It’s almost like the muffin man story.
It’s pretty evident to me given the turd TA that was produced that their MEC, execs, and NC have completely lost touch with reality and need to be recalled.
I’ve made a point of this over on the UA forum several times - the UA pilots have been in negotiations for more than 3.5 years now. During that entire time, they never filed for mediation. That’s further evidence, absent a really, really good reason that hasn’t been explained, of a union that doesn’t get it.
That means they have posed zero threat of ever being able to threaten any kind of legal self help to UA. Mediation must be gone through to be able to pose that threat.
There is almost no downside to filing for mediation. You can still meet with the company outside of scheduled mediation sessions, you can still picket, and you can still engage in the (illegal) sickouts and work slowdowns that many pilots seem to prefer. It doesn’t close any doors.
Filing for mediation starts the timer ticking toward the possibility of a release from mediation and potentially, legal self help. It opens that door.
Not filing for mediation means that you’re choosing to cut yourself off from being able to have access to perhaps the strongest leverage available to labor. You’re closing that door on yourself. Note: we are not in mediation yet.
If the UA TA passes, in terms of pattern bargaining, it’s bad for our entire profession. It will lower the bar and make it harder for our NC to achieve our goals.
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