Caveman

Exactly! Unless it's packed with a 100% made whole retro check, no thanks.

hoover

without real full retro I'm an easy no. In fact there are a lot of reasons I'm a no. Impress me!

Lewbronski

Not to stoke the whole mil/civ thing, but I've flown with at least as many clueless civilian guys as I have military guys.

Regardless of background, if a guy is going to "get it", he/she has to put in the work to understand how the whole negotiation process in the US airline industry works. It's not rocket science but it's not something you can figure out simply by studying the RLA flow chart for an hour or two or by listening to the mouth-breather next to you pass on the myths that he/she picked up from who-knows-where. You actually have to put in a little bit of work to understand how it works and why we don't need to just settle for less. With multi-million dollar careers on the line along with the well-being of our families, it seems like a no-brainer to spend at least as much time learning to understand how it works as you put into winning at fantasy football or mastering the ins-and-outs of a BGE. But that isn't what seems to actually happen.

We are not in mediation right now more than two years after opening negotiations. Most guys don't understand why that is problematic. Many probably believe that's actually a good thing.

Since we opened negotiations right when covid hit in March of 2020, perhaps some of the still-accruing delay in filing for mediation has been justified due to the once-in-a-century pandemic. Pandemic or not, though, being more than two years deep into negotiations without filing for mediation is difficult to understand. The clock has yet to start ticking on the at least 2.5 to 3 years we would likely need to be in mediation before we could pose a credible threat of being released into self help. That's concerning, especially when coupled with one of our rep's recent comments in a blast describing the RLA as "sugar in our gas tank." United had failed to file for mediation after 3.5 years of talks when they produced their turd of a TA. Maybe they held a similar view.

A full contract rewrite that produces industry-leading gains will require an enormous amount of leverage. Using the power offered by the RLA to help achieve that does not box out any of the other avenues for achieving leverage that we also have available to us. It amplifies them.

We can still picket as much as we want. We can still pound the table about the pilot shortage and the operational meltdowns. We can still issue press releases and have our leadership appear on CNBC and Fox News to let the public know what's going on. We can still pick up as much or as little open time as we want (of course, while abiding by the law). Why on Earth would we not avail ourselves of every ounce of leverage available to us, especially when many recognize the leverage provided via the RLA by the threat of self help as the strongest leverage available to a labor group?

I know, I know...many of us think, because we heard it somewhere from someone once upon a time, things like:

• But the mediator will put us on ice forever!
• The President will never let us strike!
• Congress will shut us down!

There are answers to all of those concerns but most guys have no idea what they even are. And so, resignedly, they think we just have to keep folding - that we'll punt today and move the ball down the field next time - that the deck is stacked against us.

WHACKMASTER

Super. Awesome to hear. So let’s stand shoulder to shoulder and get the contract we deserve. I genuinely could care less if you’re a “check of the month club” member. As a matter of fact, good on you as you deserve it after all the crap you went through (six month deployments away from family, etc).

What I’m saying is that I notice less of a fight in the check of the month club folks as opposed to those that came up through the Part 91/121/135 world.

flensr

Listen to the latest swapa call to get the story behind "retro" vs. "bonus". In a nutshell, the company will NEVER approve true "retro" because it would involve restating earnings, taxes, etc etc for the previous few years. Won't happen. So SWAPA is going to do some math to try to make a "signing bonus" that is about the same $$$ as a true retro payment, and hope enough people figure it out and don't pitch a fit about the label that is attached to the payroll deposit.

CA1900

Yup. Playing games to string out negotiations should cost the company, not reward it.

Psycho18th

Check of the month club here. Grew up watching my dad navigate the controller strike, B-scale, end of Flight Engineers, 9/11, concessionary contracts, bankruptcy, loss of retirement, bird flu, swine flu, etc over his airline career. So, I hope I’m eyes open about negotiations. Still my first airline and first contract negotiations. The best vicarious education I’ve found so far is reading Hard Landings, and the two volumes of Flying the Line.

WHACKMASTER

Good on you. I wish everyone would have read those books. As a matter of fact, if I were king I’d make it mandatory reading before being accepted into an airline pilot union.

Caveman

This should be read and reread.

The reality is we're gonna get a turd. Because we're weak as a whole. We were supposed to get a rewrite. That's obviously not happening. Why? Enough folks aren't asking there Reps. Why isn't there a rewrite. Rah rah rah sep process thousands of data points past practice secret company employee manuals grievances stacking up like cord wood rah rah rah need to get new language with a whole rewrite.

And then.

Umm well, not so much.

Hence. Turd. Enroute.

BLAHBLAHBLAH

Has anyone seen a comprehensive bulletpoint of the TA? How the new retirement plan works? Is this similar to what our union is looking at? Why do they only get 6 months of retro when their contract has been expired for years? Per diem changes? Etc. they sure seem fired up.