mulcher

Me too and I'm funded for it. Bring it! I'll have many reasons to vote NO.

Smooth at FL450

agreed. Those who think they already know what we'll get are just speaking out of their rears...

RJSAviator76

Yessir!

And yes, there's gonna be a retro in the proper amount that's on par with our raises, or it's an easy no. Good ol' Mr. Jordan doesn't seem to understand that there can never be an incentive for the company to stall negotiations to avoid paying the retro.... EVER!

The sooner he understands that, the better for everyone, including him.

rightseat

I know there are a lot of “No” reasons on here. My wants are really simple:
1. 3% or the actual CPI whichever is greater annually.
2. LTD til age 65 matching or exceeding the best of any other 121 carrier
3. Hourly pay rates that meet or exceed any other carrier flying 737’s.
4. Full retro pay - you can call it a bonus, chicken scratch, or pond scum for all I care. This includes full 401k contribution and per diem. There can be no financial benefit to the company for protracting negotiations. Every penny has to be paid. We cannot reward bad behavior.
5. A fair Per Diem set with annual adjustments of 3% or the annual rate of inflation, whichever is greater. No more flat rates throughout the term and any company bonus period because they protracted negotiations.


There is no compromise on these. I will get all or the vote will be no. Get them all, and I will consider the balance of the contract and likely accept it. I am financially and mentally prepared to strike to achieve these.

Y’all can quibble about parking, uniforms, and the other nickel and dime stuff. Experience has taught me that the pain in getting the nickel and dime stuff, generally causes you to yield on something for more important such as LTD or per diems. Just my opinion.

While they are 5 simple requests, I fear my commitment to this list will likely cause me to be a No vote, even on the finally accepted TA.

hoover

So to be clear the way I see it is we when we get Xx% raise DOS that that % is what the retro is based off of? Not some prorated rate year by year to get to Xx% raise?
I couldnt understand what they were saying yet I've had 4 guys this month tell me the exact same thing.

Lewbronski

A couple of points.

First, I'm not sure what you mean by being "mentally prepared to strike." Pretty much anyone at SWA should have no problem being financially prepared to strike because the median length of a mainline airline pilot strike since 1997 has been 4 days. That's the same amount of time as a typical line holder has off between trips. In the very unlikely event SWAPA was to ever strike, it would likely not be a terribly long strike. If we include all airline pilot strikes since 1996, the median length is 14 days. That includes the 51-day Petroleum Helicopters International strike and the 88-day Comair strike.

If by being mentally prepared to strike, you mean being willing to walk away from the job here at SWA when the time comes and to not come back until there's an acceptable agreement to vote on, that's one thing. To me, the bigger hurdle for this pilot group in terms of it being mentally prepared to strike is the patience that will be required to wait years from whenever SWAPA or the company files for mediation to get to the point that we might be released to self help.

Second, I wouldn't describe anyone who would vote no for a TA over items like parking and uniforms as "quibbling." I wouldn't describe those items as "nickel and dime stuff." For example, an estimate of the total amount of money that SWAPA pilots have had to pay out in parking since the effective date of the current contract is $35.5 million if we assume the average cost of parking was $50/mo and the average number of pilots paying for parking during that time was 6,000.

And finally, my personal list of no-compromise items includes, but is not limited to:

• A minimum 53% initial pay raise with follow-on pay raises tied to 3% or CPI + .5% or higher, whichever is higher. The 53% raise would bring us up to UAL's Y2000 contract, large 737 pay rate, adjusted for inflation. A built in me-too clause on our rates if another Part 121 carrier later agrees to higher rates than ours.
• Industry-leading company-funded LTD with a 401k match built-in like DL currently has.
• An A-plan like FedEx and UPS have in addition to an increased B-fund contribution for retirement
• Improved work rules with no open-ended exceptions for "irregular operations" or anything remotely similar and zero "meet and discuss" language. Must include a TFP add for tail changes and a larger TFP add for unplanned tail changes. Must include an increased rate for scheduled duty days over 10 hours. Must include added TFP for overnights less than 14 hours.
• Much improved hotel language. I spend half of my life in these places. They need to be good.
• Zero compromises on sick call language and a claw back of the concession on losing premium pay if calling in sick on a premium trip.
• The ability to drop trips to the company like many other airlines have had for years.
• Any kind of force majeure language will be a no vote.
• Any give on scope will be a no vote.
• A comprehensive definitions section of the contract with negotiating notes regarding intent included in the contract.
• Full retro pay including B-Fund match and an interest penalty of something like LIBOR + 3 for the lost time value of money.

RJSAviator76

I like it!

I would caution you on the A-plan as that's the promised money, not the actual money. In previous life, because our A-plan was terminated in bankruptcy and pawned off to PBGC, I'm literally set to get enough from PBGC to buy a case of beer a week at current prices when I retire. I would much rather take a substantially higher NEC and when I max it out, I'll do my own investments or take it as cash. During hard times, think it's bad now with Pollyannas? Wait until people sell everything in the contract to protect the A-plan only to have it terminated anyway. Because our pension numbers would be substantially higher, the PBGC will simply cap it off. To give you an idea, guys hitting the retirement age at that time were literally retiring with about 20% of what they were counting on as their A-plan payments.

I'm not a fan on A-plans for that reason. Lived it once.

RckyMtHigh

I’m for anything that gets me out of work. Let’s do this!

RckyMtHigh

That’s good stuff right there. I’ve been looking at the scheduling abuse late wondering if there is an end in sight or if it is just the “new normal”. We need to make them pay for the long days and short overnights and that sounds like it would do it. Add in a TFP add for a pre-5 am report or post midnight arrival.

Overall a great list.

flyguy81

So the initial DOS bump might be 20% (example) and 3-4% every year thereafter. Contract became amendable Sept 2020. So if we got a TA this Sept, you’d basically be a getting 10%/yr raise….$150/tfp would snap up to $170/tfp.

If you were hired on Jan 1 and are on 5th yr pay now, then in Sept 2020 you were about to start 4th yr pay. So from Sept-Dec you were on 3rd yr pay. 4th yr pay in 2021. 5th for 2022.

Swapa would take the rates in the new CBA and pay you the difference. So you’d get the difference of 3rd yr pay for Sept-Dec 2020. Difference of 4th yr pay for what you made in 2021, etc.

So those who didn’t take ExTO or VSP and killed it stand to get a huge retro check.