Picket Day Open Time Awards
06-22-2022, 08:11 AM
#72
Gets Everyday Off
Joined APC: Aug 2016
Position: Fully Retired
Posts: 7,000
Are you serious with your questions or are you trolling?
06-22-2022, 08:17 AM
#73
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2005
Position: Office Chair
Posts: 635
It was taken down shortly after it started, but it was part of the reason Spirit management sued Spirit pilots for an unlawful job action. Spirit was awarded a TRO forcing the pilot group to return to the status quo, which basically meant we were expected to fly roughly the same amount of open time that we did while not engaged in negotiations. Point of the matter is, you don't want to jeopardize the long-term goals of the group by making an emotional misstep along the way. The first rule of fight club...
06-22-2022, 08:36 AM
#74
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jun 2015
Posts: 51
It was taken down shortly after it started, but it was part of the reason Spirit management sued Spirit pilots for an unlawful job action. Spirit was awarded a TRO forcing the pilot group to return to the status quo, which basically meant we were expected to fly roughly the same amount of open time that we did while not engaged in negotiations. Point of the matter is, you don't want to jeopardize the long-term goals of the group by making an emotional misstep along the way. The first rule of fight club...
06-22-2022, 09:16 AM
#75
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2018
Posts: 1,264
It was taken down shortly after it started, but it was part of the reason Spirit management sued Spirit pilots for an unlawful job action. Spirit was awarded a TRO forcing the pilot group to return to the status quo, which basically meant we were expected to fly roughly the same amount of open time that we did while not engaged in negotiations. Point of the matter is, you don't want to jeopardize the long-term goals of the group by making an emotional misstep along the way. The first rule of fight club...
Earlier in this thread, I posted a quote from the court ordering Spirit’s MEC to rein in its pilots. That order had been preceded by Spirit’s motion that cited 2.5 pages of quotes from APC as evidence that it’s pilots were engaged in a concerted job action.
It may feel good in the moment to run a thread like this but it can be self-defeating by providing the company with some of the evidence they’d use to prove that a concerted job action was going on. I seriously doubt the company will take any action as a result of yesterday’s picket, but in the future, threads like this and many of the posts on it should be avoided in order to not jeopardize our own position.
The Spirit pilots, for example, gave the mediator all the ammunition they needed to keep them in mediation longer, which undercut their leverage in their negotiations. Who knows how much better of a contract they could have gotten without that episode?
The American pilots ended up crippling their union in 1999 with their sick-out campaign by getting a $45 million dollar fine levied against it, which exceeded APA’s assets at the time. That certainly impaired APA’s ability to advocate for its pilots.
06-22-2022, 10:13 AM
#76
Spikes the Koolaid
Joined APC: Jul 2015
Position: 737
Posts: 403
This.
I saw many open time alerts that were clearly targeted towards the large group of pilots assembled in Dallas that started with double deadheads enabling them to do both. I also know of a pilot who was bidding straight on trips over the picket while he was on vacation to entice the vultures to bid straight as well. I saw him at the picket.
I saw many open time alerts that were clearly targeted towards the large group of pilots assembled in Dallas that started with double deadheads enabling them to do both. I also know of a pilot who was bidding straight on trips over the picket while he was on vacation to entice the vultures to bid straight as well. I saw him at the picket.
06-22-2022, 10:27 AM
#77
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2017
Position: 737 FO
Posts: 989
I could not be at the picket due to prior obligation that I could not get out of. But to all those who picketed, their families who supported them, our probationary volunteers who helped out, pilots from OAL, our mechanics and FA's who also picketed - THANK YOU!
Those that picked up OT during the picket, especially in DAL and HOU... please don't call them scabs because that's misusing the word. We are not on strike. However, one thing comes to mind...
Those that picked up OT during the picket, especially in DAL and HOU... please don't call them scabs because that's misusing the word. We are not on strike. However, one thing comes to mind...
Buddy’s only half a word. I was definitely one of the smellier hungoverier ones sweating.
let’s just say I don’t appreciate anyone who actively went out and made some coin while the rest of us were sweating in the hopes of getting an industry leading contract.
06-22-2022, 10:34 AM
#78
Line Holder
Joined APC: Oct 2014
Posts: 68
If there is a known movement of a group of pilots on this website, or Facebook or anywhere else attempting to coordinate a job action, and the union is aware of it and doesn’t speak up against said action, the union and its pilots can absolutely be enjoined by a judge. I’m not saying that’s what’s happening here, but it’s good information to know if you aren’t aware of the intricacies of the RLA.
It’s also surprisingly easy to prove. All an airline has to do is prove that historical open time pickups have been at a consistent level in the past, and today those pickups have dropped to a significant level, and then tie that data to a concerted public effort to change said behavior. If the union stays quiet during this, they will be held accountable. Of course it’s up to a judge to determine the final outcome based on the information presented, but you don’t want to go down this road. The AA pilots eventually ended up paying back the damages from their job action through sub-par contracts for years.
It’s also surprisingly easy to prove. All an airline has to do is prove that historical open time pickups have been at a consistent level in the past, and today those pickups have dropped to a significant level, and then tie that data to a concerted public effort to change said behavior. If the union stays quiet during this, they will be held accountable. Of course it’s up to a judge to determine the final outcome based on the information presented, but you don’t want to go down this road. The AA pilots eventually ended up paying back the damages from their job action through sub-par contracts for years.
06-22-2022, 11:49 AM
#79
Line holder
Joined APC: Nov 2013
Position: On the bus,seat 0A
Posts: 3,332
If there is a known movement of a group of pilots on this website, or Facebook or anywhere else attempting to coordinate a job action, and the union is aware of it and doesn’t speak up against said action, the union and its pilots can absolutely be enjoined by a judge. I’m not saying that’s what’s happening here, but it’s good information to know if you aren’t aware of the intricacies of the RLA.
It’s also surprisingly easy to prove. All an airline has to do is prove that historical open time pickups have been at a consistent level in the past, and today those pickups have dropped to a significant level, and then tie that data to a concerted public effort to change said behavior. If the union stays quiet during this, they will be held accountable. Of course it’s up to a judge to determine the final outcome based on the information presented, but you don’t want to go down this road. The AA pilots eventually ended up paying back the damages from their job action through sub-par contracts for years.
It’s also surprisingly easy to prove. All an airline has to do is prove that historical open time pickups have been at a consistent level in the past, and today those pickups have dropped to a significant level, and then tie that data to a concerted public effort to change said behavior. If the union stays quiet during this, they will be held accountable. Of course it’s up to a judge to determine the final outcome based on the information presented, but you don’t want to go down this road. The AA pilots eventually ended up paying back the damages from their job action through sub-par contracts for years.
We will take advice from our union, not some managment union buster
06-22-2022, 11:52 AM
#80
Line holder
Joined APC: Nov 2013
Position: On the bus,seat 0A
Posts: 3,332
I woke up at 0430 after minimal sleep, got in my car and drove $80 worth of gas down to Dallas to stand in the hot sun with a bunch of smelly, hung over dudes and ladies. I then turned around and drove the 4 hours back home through hellish traffic. I did all this on my summer vacation week over the protests of my kids who wanted to spend time with me.
If someone chose to pick up open time over the one day where they could have been out on the line showing support for their fellow pilots, I won't have any dealings with them outside of official business. No excuses. It's ridiculous behavior.
That being said, check the open time report for full accuracy. Plenty of guys who were there at the picket and appear on it due to released deadheads or late reports.
If someone chose to pick up open time over the one day where they could have been out on the line showing support for their fellow pilots, I won't have any dealings with them outside of official business. No excuses. It's ridiculous behavior.
That being said, check the open time report for full accuracy. Plenty of guys who were there at the picket and appear on it due to released deadheads or late reports.
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