yellowNEO

Hey everyone,

I’m a yellow Airbus pilot with a job offer from Southwest. The merger process at Spirit has created so much uncertainty of the future that, in the current environment, it doesn’t make sense to stay. Literally EVERYWHERE is hiring.

I applied to Southwest as it’s always seemed very stable. That, and the pilot group seems fun and there seems to be good money to be made. Before I received the CJO at SWA, I put together an AirlineApps account and applied to United & Delta to test the waters. Within 72 hours, I received assessment invites and now may have additional options. I could live in SWA or UAL bases, or commute for Delta (at least in the short term). Since I don’t want to jump jobs, I’m trying to do my due diligence and make sure I fully understand what I’d be getting myself into at SWA. I’ve got 30 years of flying left, so I wanna bet on the best horse for my family & I’s situation.

1) What’s the FO compensation situation at Southwest? I’m well-aware of long upgrades here, but according to the APC annual “W2 salary” thread, even First Officers do really well here. The question is … what’s the rub? Hustling a lot, working down to min days off, tournament-level ‘playing the game,’ outlier of compensation due to being understaffed, etc.? I know upgrades can be very quick at Delta and United, but that’s also relegating one’s self to reserve in an undesirable base.

2) What’s the status of Contract 2020? I saw SWAPA has an informational picketing even in Dallas on the 21st. Any meaningful contractual gains TA’d? The United AIP looks promising and my buddy at Delta said their management is entertaining some impressive contractual improvements [to include making positive space commuting to/from work permanent]. I know this is a big ‘what if,’ but I’m an outsider with no knowledge of where y’all are at.

3) In this current labor market, you guys and gals could go anywhere. Why do you stay (i.e. what do you like/love about SWA) here when you could bounce to any other major carrier?

4) What’s the current MAX situation? One of my concerns with coming to Southwest is the single fleet type with the recent history of Boeing and their MAX certification issues. I know the NEO’s geared turbofan has been huge for fuel efficiency, so for SWA to get LEAP engines on the MAX 7 is going to do wonders for profitability in light of rapidly increasing fuel costs. That said, the MAX 7 seems like it may not make the December 2022 cutoff for EICAS certification. Is SWA still looking at the A220 or other fleet options if this falls through?

Salukidawg

I’ll give you the contrary answer that isn’t popular with some on this site. I would encourage you to come over to Southwest. Things are a little rough right now, but I think they’re rough everywhere else as well. We’re making some (albeit minor progress) with the company in negotiations. If you currently live in a Southwest Domicile, life is pretty good on reserve. Overall I think it’s a good place to work, but there are a lot of choices out there right now. So, it may or may not be for you. I will say that I think the economy is about to take a major dive that is going to put the entire Airline Industry into the red again come fall. We have tons of cash on hand, the lowest debt of any Airline in the world, and the best fuel hedging program in the industry. Going into a prolonged recession, there is no other Airline I would rather be at than this one. YMMV.

AJ311

We make more because we block more, generally in fewer days but does that matter? This needs to be properly addressed in C2020 to get my vote. New CEO says they want the deal wrapped up by the end of the year, I just hope we don’t go first this time. We are in negotiations so take this with a grain when reading online. 1,000+ pilots are about to make their displeasure heard in DAL.

SW is stable, and they stepped on their crank with the warn letters. But this last downturn saw a leveled playing field with the covid cash, think about what would’ve happened without this $$? Is this the new norm? Is a recession on the horizon? I’d be asking all these questions.

The upgrade is coming down. Max 8’s are being delivered instead of the max 7’s.

Most say the people are awesome because by and large they are awesome. Deserving of a contract that reflects we work for a very profitable and fiscally sound airline.

Mozam

The front line employees are awesome at WN and for the most part have each other’s backs. That said , back at HQ they have been brainwashed that the pilots are trying to ruin the company and they are noting more than a group of plumbers. Grab a wrench and come on over .

Smooth at FL450

This.

Lot's of variables to consider, but I think it comes down to this: where do you want to live? Which seniority list would you want to be at the bottom if should the music stop again?

Contract 2020 will see improvements, but no nothing is TA'd yet. I'm sure there is a backup plan being considered given the Max7 issues. The Max8 is VERY fuel efficient and we're converting all 2022 7s into 8s and deliveries are continuing as scheduled, 114 expected this year alone. I'd be surprised if we are still only operating 737s in 30 years given it's at the end of it's production road already. Oh and upgrade just dropped to 8 years and think it'll be down to 7 next year.

A good time to be looking for change! Good luck. SWA is a great job if you live in base, I'm very happy here.

Crockrocket95

Between, the SWA/UAL/DAL/ETC threads out there you can gain alot of insight.

Ill do my best to answer some of the stuff.
Compensation-

You can do pretty dang well here. BUT you work for it. Its rare in normal times that someone sits around on reserve, never works and collects money. Weekday reserves are used less but those go senior... on the reserve scale. You can do 120K first year. Its possible. 100K is more realistic number without working 20 days a month. Id plan on 90K if you are a "fly the line" kind of person.
The people that make the large numbers fly or credit a ton. Hustle or know the ways to make money. You can get paid a bunch here without actually doing a ton of flying if you know how to work the system. Or you can grind. Whatever works for you.

Living in base. -

Yeah no brainer there, if you live in a base that ISNT Atlanta you should have a pretty good QOL and be able to make good money. Not much to say.

Contract 2020 -

Its the same story as every airline. Past due. If we can get our rewrite, with our asks, it'll be a really solid gain. A bunch of us are pretty jaded from the last few years and the BS we see in management so we know they can pay and provide what we want, so I don't think we will settle for less. I would be amazed if we had a TA in under 2 years.

The MAX is obviously the craft that SWA has hitched their caboose. Its a decent plane and efficient... I don't see them making a change any time soon.


Love flying with the crews, 95 percent of the inflight is good and as with anywhere, use common sense and the job is easy and stress free. I am a year 3 guy, and Im gonna ride the ship as long as it floats. With hiring and having a semblance of seniority I have no desire to go elsewhere. Now if they would just make Tampa a base!

Proximity

The MAX7 debacle is a win for Southwest and the pilot group.

Southwest was able to negotiate an amazing deal on the MAX7, but now since Boeing can't manage to certify the MAX7 I assume when we convert our MAX7 deliveries to MAX8s that deal carries over. Planes are still coming, 114 this year.

I would say that there is a chance that the MAX7 goes away, just as the -600 had a short life. Southwest is really the only customer who ordered the MAX7, and there are three times as many MAX10 orders spread over many airlines, and Boeing might need to focus on that variant. This could be the final push needed to drive the company to order a different aircraft, unless they want to get out of flying 140 seat aircraft. The signs are there, with the company proposing payrates for different aircraft in the contract talks. A new airplane would drive up hiring (training float) and would open up additional opportunities.

Smooth at FL450

The Max10 is under the same new EICAS requirement constraint as the Max7.

Smokey23

Yep....and while no one else (save ALGT?) may care about the 7, there's a whole lot of other customers who very much care about the 10. If this EICAS issue cannot get resolved, it will be just the latest in an ever-growing list of current events where bureaucracy and politics triumph over common sense. And could be the final straw for Boeing as a commercial aircraft manufacturer. Say what you will about their product lineup, but the airline biz will be a lot worse off if Boeing is no longer a player.

Otterbox

Depends on where you are at Spirit. Already a Captain? Maybe best to wait for a legacy so you won’t be stuck in the right seat of the 73 for 10-15 years. FO? Maybe worth going to SWA but with 30 years left you could be a 777/787 etc. CA for the last 10 years of your career at UA, DAL, FedEx, UPS and AA.