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11-28-2023, 07:46 AM
#221
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2022
Posts: 195
This is exactly my point as well, however Elon doesnt want to see it this way and has decided their way is the right way, regardless of what anyone says, inlcuding SWAPA. No point in arguing anymore with them, as they have decided that anyone that disagrees with them deserves to be on some imaginary list and is the problem.
Let me ask you a few questions. Why does the company offer OT? Why do they encourage said OT by offering it at a higher rate sometimes? Do you think a company that hates its employees as much as they do, would that company do anything that benefits the employees? Why do you accept a OT trip at 150 percent of 2015 pay rates and not just wait out the 150 percent at 2023 rates?
The company offers OT because it benefits them otherwise they would not do it. Thats the cold hard truth. They don’t care about you and if they believed it helped you build a strike fund, they would not do it ever. The toadies that pick it up do so on the company marketplace because they feel it benefits them. It’s a shortsighted thought process. In football you sometimes take a 5 yard loss on a play to set up the fade for a touchdown. It’s a sacrifice now for a bigger gain later.
I will not convince some of you but that is not my goal it’s to ask questions and maybe a few people will see the end game. It’s nothing personal guys, it’s business. In business it’s a win at all cost mentality that gets one ahead. I was trained in my previous industry to win at all costs, to keep pushing and pushing till the end goal is attained. I will destroy anything and anyone in my path to attain that goal. I don’t care if they are friend or foe, that’s not relevant as the only thing that is relevant is winning.
In regards to the B scalers, of course they get a pass. They have been sold out for so long they should get a pass. Working at the lowest percentage in the industry of captains rate. Embarrassing…
Oh BTW ALPA is having the meeting of the SPCs to discuss their autopsies on the latest contract talks. OT pickup is discussed and is a contentious issue especially among United.
You guys figure out how much APA actually paid yet?
11-28-2023, 08:37 AM
#222
Gets Weekend Reserve
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,776
Because they're contractually obligated to, so we can bid on it and cost them more. In fact, we can even take trips off reserves which costs the company paying for the reserve and also paying whoever takes the trip off of reserve. OAL's don't have that provision.
Why do they encourage said OT by offering it at a higher rate sometimes? Do you think a company that hates its employees as much as they do, would that company do anything that benefits the employees? Why do you accept a OT trip at 150 percent of 2015 pay rates and not just wait out the 150 percent at 2023 rates?
Because I can throttle my paycheck as I see fit, not depend on the company like a good boy. And you better believe it that all this flying is subject to retro payments as well.
The company offers OT becauseit benefits them otherwise they would not do it they are contractually obligated to do so. Thats the cold hard truth. They don’t care about you and if they believed it helped you build a strike fund, they would not do it ever. The toadies that pick it up do so on the company marketplace because they feel it benefits them. It’s a shortsighted thought process. In football you sometimes take a 5 yard loss on a play to set up the fade for a touchdown. It’s a sacrifice now for a bigger gain later.
Fixed it for you...
The rest of this paragraph is your opinion. I disagree with the last part of your opinion because of historical principles of this pilot group that would be easily proven in court if we were to depart status quo on some illegal job action.
By all means ask away and yes, agreed that it's all about winning. We just disagree with how do we get there.
In regards to the B scalers, of course they get a pass. They have been sold out for so long they should get a pass. Working at the lowest percentage in the industry of captains rate. Embarrassing…
Oh BTW ALPA is having the meeting of the SPCs to discuss their autopsies on the latest contract talks. OT pickup is discussed and is a contentious issue especially among United.
You guys figure out how much APA actually paid yet?
https://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/cwc/profile-of-the-american-airlines-pilot-sickout.pdf
Why do they encourage said OT by offering it at a higher rate sometimes? Do you think a company that hates its employees as much as they do, would that company do anything that benefits the employees? Why do you accept a OT trip at 150 percent of 2015 pay rates and not just wait out the 150 percent at 2023 rates?
The company offers OT because
The rest of this paragraph is your opinion. I disagree with the last part of your opinion because of historical principles of this pilot group that would be easily proven in court if we were to depart status quo on some illegal job action.
I will not convince some of you but that is not my goal it’s to ask questions and maybe a few people will see the end game. It’s nothing personal guys, it’s business. In business it’s a win at all cost mentality that gets one ahead. I was trained in my previous industry to win at all costs, to keep pushing and pushing till the end goal is attained. I will destroy anything and anyone in my path to attain that goal. I don’t care if they are friend or foe, that’s not relevant as the only thing that is relevant is winning.
In regards to the B scalers, of course they get a pass. They have been sold out for so long they should get a pass. Working at the lowest percentage in the industry of captains rate. Embarrassing…
Oh BTW ALPA is having the meeting of the SPCs to discuss their autopsies on the latest contract talks. OT pickup is discussed and is a contentious issue especially among United.
You guys figure out how much APA actually paid yet?
11-28-2023, 08:42 AM
#223
At your mom's house
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: cpt 737
Posts: 2,798
Let me ask you a few questions. Why does the company offer OT? Why do they encourage said OT by offering it at a higher rate sometimes? Do you think a company that hates its employees as much as they do, would that company do anything that benefits the employees? Why do you accept a OT trip at 150 percent of 2015 pay rates and not just wait out the 150 percent at 2023 rates?
The company offers OT because it benefits them otherwise they would not do it. Thats the cold hard truth. They don’t care about you and if they believed it helped you build a strike fund, they would not do it ever. The toadies that pick it up do so on the company marketplace because they feel it benefits them. It’s a shortsighted thought process. In football you sometimes take a 5 yard loss on a play to set up the fade for a touchdown. It’s a sacrifice now for a bigger gain later.
I will not convince some of you but that is not my goal it’s to ask questions and maybe a few people will see the end game. It’s nothing personal guys, it’s business. In business it’s a win at all cost mentality that gets one ahead. I was trained in my previous industry to win at all costs, to keep pushing and pushing till the end goal is attained. I will destroy anything and anyone in my path to attain that goal. I don’t care if they are friend or foe, that’s not relevant as the only thing that is relevant is winning.
In regards to the B scalers, of course they get a pass. They have been sold out for so long they should get a pass. Working at the lowest percentage in the industry of captains rate. Embarrassing…
Oh BTW ALPA is having the meeting of the SPCs to discuss their autopsies on the latest contract talks. OT pickup is discussed and is a contentious issue especially among United.
You guys figure out how much APA actually paid yet?
The company offers OT because it benefits them otherwise they would not do it. Thats the cold hard truth. They don’t care about you and if they believed it helped you build a strike fund, they would not do it ever. The toadies that pick it up do so on the company marketplace because they feel it benefits them. It’s a shortsighted thought process. In football you sometimes take a 5 yard loss on a play to set up the fade for a touchdown. It’s a sacrifice now for a bigger gain later.
I will not convince some of you but that is not my goal it’s to ask questions and maybe a few people will see the end game. It’s nothing personal guys, it’s business. In business it’s a win at all cost mentality that gets one ahead. I was trained in my previous industry to win at all costs, to keep pushing and pushing till the end goal is attained. I will destroy anything and anyone in my path to attain that goal. I don’t care if they are friend or foe, that’s not relevant as the only thing that is relevant is winning.
In regards to the B scalers, of course they get a pass. They have been sold out for so long they should get a pass. Working at the lowest percentage in the industry of captains rate. Embarrassing…
Oh BTW ALPA is having the meeting of the SPCs to discuss their autopsies on the latest contract talks. OT pickup is discussed and is a contentious issue especially among United.
You guys figure out how much APA actually paid yet?
11-28-2023, 09:32 AM
#224
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2022
Posts: 195
Been doing this business for over 25 years. There is no saving pilots from pilots, they are some of the most shortsighted individuals that will ever be seen. Look at the history as they raced each other to the bottom. Accepting pay for training. AA and the B scales so they get growth. WN with taking same pay for all 737s. It’s all about pilots serving themselves. It’s a disgrace TBH. All about not seeing the end game and how to achieve it.
11-28-2023, 09:35 AM
#225
Strike averted!
Joined APC: Mar 2015
Position: B737
Posts: 3,789
Been doing this business for over 25 years. There is no saving pilots from pilots, they are some of the most shortsighted individuals that will ever be seen. Look at the history as they raced each other to the bottom. Accepting pay for training. AA and the B scales so they get growth. WN with taking same pay for all 737s. It’s all about pilots serving themselves. It’s a disgrace TBH. All about not seeing the end game and how to achieve it.
11-28-2023, 09:36 AM
#226
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2022
Posts: 195
Because they're contractually obligated to, so we can bid on it and cost them more. In fact, we can even take trips off reserves which costs the company paying for the reserve and also paying whoever takes the trip off of reserve. OAL's don't have that provision.
Because I can throttle my paycheck as I see fit, not depend on the company like a good boy. And you better believe it that all this flying is subject to retro payments as well.
Fixed it for you...
The rest of this paragraph is your opinion. I disagree with the last part of your opinion because of historical principles of this pilot group that would be easily proven in court if we were to depart status quo on some illegal job action.
By all means ask away and yes, agreed that it's all about winning. We just disagree with how do we get there.
https://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/cwc/profile-of-the-american-airlines-pilot-sickout.pdf
Because I can throttle my paycheck as I see fit, not depend on the company like a good boy. And you better believe it that all this flying is subject to retro payments as well.
Fixed it for you...
The rest of this paragraph is your opinion. I disagree with the last part of your opinion because of historical principles of this pilot group that would be easily proven in court if we were to depart status quo on some illegal job action.
By all means ask away and yes, agreed that it's all about winning. We just disagree with how do we get there.
https://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/cwc/profile-of-the-american-airlines-pilot-sickout.pdf
I agree with have different paths to achieve the goal. Yours is a longer one IMO.
In regards to OT they are contractually obliged to offer but they do not have to award OT. They can assign all OT to reserves if they want. But they don’t because it is a benefit to them to keep manning low. It’s a benefit to them not you.
11-28-2023, 10:03 AM
#227
Gets Weekend Reserve
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,776
So do you not see that agreeing to 2015 premium pay is less than premium pay with new 2023 rates? You know the story of delayed gratification and research on it? Look up the Stanford Marshmallow Experiment, I can guess you would have taken the first available one.
I agree with have different paths to achieve the goal. Yours is a longer one IMO.
In regards to OT they are contractually obliged to offer but they do not have to award OT. They can assign all OT to reserves if they want. But they don’t because it is a benefit to them to keep manning low. It’s a benefit to them not you.
I agree with have different paths to achieve the goal. Yours is a longer one IMO.
In regards to OT they are contractually obliged to offer but they do not have to award OT. They can assign all OT to reserves if they want. But they don’t because it is a benefit to them to keep manning low. It’s a benefit to them not you.
And no, they can only assign flying to reserves if no one is bidding straight. Straight bidders get awarded flying before reserves. That's why it costs them more... pretty sure at most OAL's, you can't pick up from reserve. Here, you can. That costs them money, and they hate that.
11-28-2023, 10:13 AM
#228
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2022
Posts: 195
Not sure what you're referring to with 2015 rates. What I am saying is that all this flying will be paid up in retro in 2024.... or it's a no vote.
And no, they can only assign flying to reserves if no one is bidding straight. Straight bidders get awarded flying before reserves. That's why it costs them more... pretty sure at most OAL's, you can't pick up from reserve. Here, you can. That costs them money, and they hate that.
And no, they can only assign flying to reserves if no one is bidding straight. Straight bidders get awarded flying before reserves. That's why it costs them more... pretty sure at most OAL's, you can't pick up from reserve. Here, you can. That costs them money, and they hate that.
They award OT because it is a benefit to them as it keeps manning lower. If you don’t believe me call up SWAPA rep and ask. Big picture man….big picture.
11-28-2023, 11:05 AM
#229
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2020
Posts: 1,898
Not sure what you're referring to with 2015 rates. What I am saying is that all this flying will be paid up in retro in 2024.... or it's a no vote.
And no, they can only assign flying to reserves if no one is bidding straight. Straight bidders get awarded flying before reserves. That's why it costs them more... pretty sure at most OAL's, you can't pick up from reserve. Here, you can. That costs them money, and they hate that.
And no, they can only assign flying to reserves if no one is bidding straight. Straight bidders get awarded flying before reserves. That's why it costs them more... pretty sure at most OAL's, you can't pick up from reserve. Here, you can. That costs them money, and they hate that.
Your right that (at DAL at least) once a trip has been assigned to a reserve, it cannot be picked up any longer by a lineholder, but why would the company rather it be the other way?
It seems that SWA's way, you free up a reserve now to cover another trip that may help the company avoid having to offer premium pay (double at DAL's case) to cover.
SWA's reserves are already much more efficient and flexible for the company as your pilots are all mostly interchangable with operating only one type.
11-28-2023, 11:22 AM
#230
Gets Weekend Reserve
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,776
Let’s just say that is not how it is done. They award AR with no regard to who is bidding. I have screen shots of OT trips that have minutes left to bid with the assigned reserve already listed in the upper right hand corner. There are straight bidders on said trips too.
They award OT because it is a benefit to them as it keeps manning lower. If you don’t believe me call up SWAPA rep and ask. Big picture man….big picture.
They award OT because it is a benefit to them as it keeps manning lower. If you don’t believe me call up SWAPA rep and ask. Big picture man….big picture.
Otherwise, it’s error pay.
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