Newbies... work smarter, not harder
11-12-2021, 01:07 AM
#11
Strike averted!
Joined APC: Mar 2015
Position: B737
Posts: 3,789
Same! Great info.
Another thing for the noobs is to be patient. The second half of the month is when a lot of the cap stuff takes hold, and when some trades are easier to get
If you are a reserve commuter (as example), you are often able to trade a reserve block for a line trip (with another pilot) and then trade that trip in ELITT. This can help build some commuting strength and get you a more solid schedule. Being able to commute several hours later than a RAP start time can be a big difference in QOL.
Another note for first year commuters—I found that crashpads are not always cheaper than hotels. I set my preference to fly and found that I would have saved money by flying vs. staying in the pad.
Figure out your commute and know the contract.
Having a food bag will save you money. While captains (or even FOs) may buy you drinks or the occasional meal, airport and hotel food will hit hard.
Another thing for the noobs is to be patient. The second half of the month is when a lot of the cap stuff takes hold, and when some trades are easier to get
If you are a reserve commuter (as example), you are often able to trade a reserve block for a line trip (with another pilot) and then trade that trip in ELITT. This can help build some commuting strength and get you a more solid schedule. Being able to commute several hours later than a RAP start time can be a big difference in QOL.
Another note for first year commuters—I found that crashpads are not always cheaper than hotels. I set my preference to fly and found that I would have saved money by flying vs. staying in the pad.
Figure out your commute and know the contract.
Having a food bag will save you money. While captains (or even FOs) may buy you drinks or the occasional meal, airport and hotel food will hit hard.
11-12-2021, 03:27 AM
#12
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2016
Position: Left
Posts: 1,260
Also welcome to WN. I think you will love it here.
11-12-2021, 05:42 AM
#13
Line Holder
Joined APC: Mar 2016
Posts: 29
This is great info!
I’ll throw one tidbit in for the military guys that’s kind of key with the whole “second year pay” deal.
If you drop a trip for military leave the system does not reset your “baseline.” You’ll have to pick up some TFP in order to get back above your monthly baseline to get second year pay.
For a quick example. If your month baselines at 100 and you drop mil leave on a trip that pays 25. You now have 75 on your board. In order for all of those tricks above to work, you need to find 25 TFP somewhere else for the second year to kick in.
I know that it sucks. It’s just the way it is.
Other military tips -
the trip you drop pays you sick pay (10 flown TFP at regular pay equals 1 sick TFP) and NEC (non elective contributions) to your 401k. So keep that in mind when you trade some trips. It may benefit you to “trade up” depending on the situation.
Keep in mind trip split points as well when you drop mil leave.
I’ll throw one tidbit in for the military guys that’s kind of key with the whole “second year pay” deal.
If you drop a trip for military leave the system does not reset your “baseline.” You’ll have to pick up some TFP in order to get back above your monthly baseline to get second year pay.
For a quick example. If your month baselines at 100 and you drop mil leave on a trip that pays 25. You now have 75 on your board. In order for all of those tricks above to work, you need to find 25 TFP somewhere else for the second year to kick in.
I know that it sucks. It’s just the way it is.
Other military tips -
the trip you drop pays you sick pay (10 flown TFP at regular pay equals 1 sick TFP) and NEC (non elective contributions) to your 401k. So keep that in mind when you trade some trips. It may benefit you to “trade up” depending on the situation.
Keep in mind trip split points as well when you drop mil leave.
11-12-2021, 05:44 AM
#14
At your mom's house
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: cpt 737
Posts: 2,798
I'd add that flying PMs gains you more opportunity to get move up or reroutes as the operation implodes in the evenings.
Move up pays premium for the whole day. Reroutes can pay premium if later end of day. Also you can score that sweet 3% redeye override on legs that tough 0200-0400. That alone can pay for a sandwich. Winning
Move up pays premium for the whole day. Reroutes can pay premium if later end of day. Also you can score that sweet 3% redeye override on legs that tough 0200-0400. That alone can pay for a sandwich. Winning
11-13-2021, 05:45 AM
#16
Spikes the Koolaid
Joined APC: Jul 2015
Position: 737
Posts: 403
RJS, I think it bears further repeating that the KEY to maximizing your opportunity to pick up extra flying is to drive your original line value down as much as you possibly can by bidding into conflict. You don't necessarily have to be senior to be able to do this. Even reserve (which right now is junior, not always so, especially traditionally slow months like Jan, Feb, Apr, Sep, Oct, Dec except for the last week) can actually be quite easy to manipulate into dropping by trying to get a schedule with up to 3 days in the following bid month. Then bid for a reserve line the next month where the first reserve pairing conflicts with the first 3 days of the month. If you do it right they can drop one or two of those extra reserve days, dropping your original line value by 6-12 or more. You do not have to be senior or live on your phone to bid into conflict. You just have to know to look for it when you're bidding.
A couple other things that will be helpful to know about when you're in your first year are engine runs and ground repositions. Now, they always apply no matter what year you're in, but i say it's important in your first year for two reasons: a lot of captains (for some reason I can't fathom) have no clue that these additions exist and you being in reserve will increase the chances that you'll be doing maintenance flights, which may require a tow into a hangar at the end of it.
Basically these two additions are if you have to start an engine for ANY reason other than starting them as part of the flight, or if ANYBODY asks you to ride the breaks or move an airplane for them, you get paid an extra TFP. Engine won't light off after pushback and when you call maintenance they tell you to try it on the left ignitor? 1tfp for EACH START THEY TELL YOU TO TRY. You pull up to the hangar in Dallas and they hook up a tow bar and pull you into one of the hangars before rolling some stairs up to the airplane? 1tfp. All of these things will also be affected by whatever kind of flying you're doing. On a premium trip or holiday, they will pay 1.5tfp, on a JA (or a JA done add-on/pick up) they will pay 2tfp each.
This can be quite lucrative. I once did 3 engine runs and a ground repo for one minor hydraulic leak. Found some fluid under an engine. Maintenance comes out, we start the motor to confirm that it's still leaking, they fix it in about 15 minutes, we start it again to confirm that the leak stopped, then had the ramp crew push us off the gate so we could test the reverser and confirm it didn't leak that way too, then pulled us back onto the gate. I was on a premium trip, so all this ended up paying 6tfp for about 45 minutes of time, during which we did 8 minutes of work (minute for each start, 5 minutes to push 100feet back off the gate and get pulled back in). The longest part was waiting for maintenance to show up. The captain had no clue about this provision in the contract and wanted to go and grab breakfast, but I told him that if we did that, maintenance would do all that without us if we left. Because I knew about this, he made $1000 for 8 minutes of work instead of spending $38 on a California airport breakfast sandwich.
Bottom line: never ever leave the airplane if you suspect a maintenance issue might cause an engine start, and never just "try" a second start to see if you fixed the problem/the problem fixed itself. Always do it at the direction of maintenance (this helps with preventing violations too).
Another thing that I've learned to do over the years is keep an eye on days when I'm duty rigged. This requires a little bit more backbone because scheduling pushes back sometimes, but is perfectly legal. If the company mandated van time gets you to the airport obscenely early (CLE, ORF, SLC, etc), I call scheduling and have them adjust my report time back to the time that I actually got there. This takes a little bit of the sting out of getting to the gate 45 minutes prior to your show time. Same thing if the hotel van takes forever to get you to your hotel. I call and have them adjust my duty off time to when I actually get there.
The reason I say this takes a little bit of backbone is because generally you'll get transferred to a supervisor because the scheduler has "never heard of that being done". If the supervisor says they don't usually adjust the times, i justify it to them by saying that "I just want everybody on the same page that the company required me to get to XXX airport at xxx am so I'll be basing all my legalities off of that time instead of what was originally scheduled" or "make sure the start time of my rest properly reflects that it took me an hour and a half to get to the hotel". Never get push back after that, and even though it's not as much cash as picking up at 2nd year or premium, it adds up pretty quickly at the duty rig of .74tfp per hour, and it comes at a cost of 0 block.
A couple other things that will be helpful to know about when you're in your first year are engine runs and ground repositions. Now, they always apply no matter what year you're in, but i say it's important in your first year for two reasons: a lot of captains (for some reason I can't fathom) have no clue that these additions exist and you being in reserve will increase the chances that you'll be doing maintenance flights, which may require a tow into a hangar at the end of it.
Basically these two additions are if you have to start an engine for ANY reason other than starting them as part of the flight, or if ANYBODY asks you to ride the breaks or move an airplane for them, you get paid an extra TFP. Engine won't light off after pushback and when you call maintenance they tell you to try it on the left ignitor? 1tfp for EACH START THEY TELL YOU TO TRY. You pull up to the hangar in Dallas and they hook up a tow bar and pull you into one of the hangars before rolling some stairs up to the airplane? 1tfp. All of these things will also be affected by whatever kind of flying you're doing. On a premium trip or holiday, they will pay 1.5tfp, on a JA (or a JA done add-on/pick up) they will pay 2tfp each.
This can be quite lucrative. I once did 3 engine runs and a ground repo for one minor hydraulic leak. Found some fluid under an engine. Maintenance comes out, we start the motor to confirm that it's still leaking, they fix it in about 15 minutes, we start it again to confirm that the leak stopped, then had the ramp crew push us off the gate so we could test the reverser and confirm it didn't leak that way too, then pulled us back onto the gate. I was on a premium trip, so all this ended up paying 6tfp for about 45 minutes of time, during which we did 8 minutes of work (minute for each start, 5 minutes to push 100feet back off the gate and get pulled back in). The longest part was waiting for maintenance to show up. The captain had no clue about this provision in the contract and wanted to go and grab breakfast, but I told him that if we did that, maintenance would do all that without us if we left. Because I knew about this, he made $1000 for 8 minutes of work instead of spending $38 on a California airport breakfast sandwich.
Bottom line: never ever leave the airplane if you suspect a maintenance issue might cause an engine start, and never just "try" a second start to see if you fixed the problem/the problem fixed itself. Always do it at the direction of maintenance (this helps with preventing violations too).
Another thing that I've learned to do over the years is keep an eye on days when I'm duty rigged. This requires a little bit more backbone because scheduling pushes back sometimes, but is perfectly legal. If the company mandated van time gets you to the airport obscenely early (CLE, ORF, SLC, etc), I call scheduling and have them adjust my report time back to the time that I actually got there. This takes a little bit of the sting out of getting to the gate 45 minutes prior to your show time. Same thing if the hotel van takes forever to get you to your hotel. I call and have them adjust my duty off time to when I actually get there.
The reason I say this takes a little bit of backbone is because generally you'll get transferred to a supervisor because the scheduler has "never heard of that being done". If the supervisor says they don't usually adjust the times, i justify it to them by saying that "I just want everybody on the same page that the company required me to get to XXX airport at xxx am so I'll be basing all my legalities off of that time instead of what was originally scheduled" or "make sure the start time of my rest properly reflects that it took me an hour and a half to get to the hotel". Never get push back after that, and even though it's not as much cash as picking up at 2nd year or premium, it adds up pretty quickly at the duty rig of .74tfp per hour, and it comes at a cost of 0 block.
11-13-2021, 08:23 AM
#17
Gets Weekend Reserve
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,776
RJS, I think it bears further repeating that the KEY to maximizing your opportunity to pick up extra flying is to drive your original line value down as much as you possibly can by bidding into conflict. You don't necessarily have to be senior to be able to do this. Even reserve (which right now is junior, not always so, especially traditionally slow months like Jan, Feb, Apr, Sep, Oct, Dec except for the last week) can actually be quite easy to manipulate into dropping by trying to get a schedule with up to 3 days in the following bid month. Then bid for a reserve line the next month where the first reserve pairing conflicts with the first 3 days of the month. If you do it right they can drop one or two of those extra reserve days, dropping your original line value by 6-12 or more. You do not have to be senior or live on your phone to bid into conflict. You just have to know to look for it when you're bidding.
A couple other things that will be helpful to know about when you're in your first year are engine runs and ground repositions. Now, they always apply no matter what year you're in, but i say it's important in your first year for two reasons: a lot of captains (for some reason I can't fathom) have no clue that these additions exist and you being in reserve will increase the chances that you'll be doing maintenance flights, which may require a tow into a hangar at the end of it.
Basically these two additions are if you have to start an engine for ANY reason other than starting them as part of the flight, or if ANYBODY asks you to ride the breaks or move an airplane for them, you get paid an extra TFP. Engine won't light off after pushback and when you call maintenance they tell you to try it on the left ignitor? 1tfp for EACH START THEY TELL YOU TO TRY. You pull up to the hangar in Dallas and they hook up a tow bar and pull you into one of the hangars before rolling some stairs up to the airplane? 1tfp. All of these things will also be affected by whatever kind of flying you're doing. On a premium trip or holiday, they will pay 1.5tfp, on a JA (or a JA done add-on/pick up) they will pay 2tfp each.
This can be quite lucrative. I once did 3 engine runs and a ground repo for one minor hydraulic leak. Found some fluid under an engine. Maintenance comes out, we start the motor to confirm that it's still leaking, they fix it in about 15 minutes, we start it again to confirm that the leak stopped, then had the ramp crew push us off the gate so we could test the reverser and confirm it didn't leak that way too, then pulled us back onto the gate. I was on a premium trip, so all this ended up paying 6tfp for about 45 minutes of time, during which we did 8 minutes of work (minute for each start, 5 minutes to push 100feet back off the gate and get pulled back in). The longest part was waiting for maintenance to show up. The captain had no clue about this provision in the contract and wanted to go and grab breakfast, but I told him that if we did that, maintenance would do all that without us if we left. Because I knew about this, he made $1000 for 8 minutes of work instead of spending $38 on a California airport breakfast sandwich.
Bottom line: never ever leave the airplane if you suspect a maintenance issue might cause an engine start, and never just "try" a second start to see if you fixed the problem/the problem fixed itself. Always do it at the direction of maintenance (this helps with preventing violations too).
Another thing that I've learned to do over the years is keep an eye on days when I'm duty rigged. This requires a little bit more backbone because scheduling pushes back sometimes, but is perfectly legal. If the company mandated van time gets you to the airport obscenely early (CLE, ORF, SLC, etc), I call scheduling and have them adjust my report time back to the time that I actually got there. This takes a little bit of the sting out of getting to the gate 45 minutes prior to your show time. Same thing if the hotel van takes forever to get you to your hotel. I call and have them adjust my duty off time to when I actually get there.
The reason I say this takes a little bit of backbone is because generally you'll get transferred to a supervisor because the scheduler has "never heard of that being done". If the supervisor says they don't usually adjust the times, i justify it to them by saying that "I just want everybody on the same page that the company required me to get to XXX airport at xxx am so I'll be basing all my legalities off of that time instead of what was originally scheduled" or "make sure the start time of my rest properly reflects that it took me an hour and a half to get to the hotel". Never get push back after that, and even though it's not as much cash as picking up at 2nd year or premium, it adds up pretty quickly at the duty rig of .74tfp per hour, and it comes at a cost of 0 block.
A couple other things that will be helpful to know about when you're in your first year are engine runs and ground repositions. Now, they always apply no matter what year you're in, but i say it's important in your first year for two reasons: a lot of captains (for some reason I can't fathom) have no clue that these additions exist and you being in reserve will increase the chances that you'll be doing maintenance flights, which may require a tow into a hangar at the end of it.
Basically these two additions are if you have to start an engine for ANY reason other than starting them as part of the flight, or if ANYBODY asks you to ride the breaks or move an airplane for them, you get paid an extra TFP. Engine won't light off after pushback and when you call maintenance they tell you to try it on the left ignitor? 1tfp for EACH START THEY TELL YOU TO TRY. You pull up to the hangar in Dallas and they hook up a tow bar and pull you into one of the hangars before rolling some stairs up to the airplane? 1tfp. All of these things will also be affected by whatever kind of flying you're doing. On a premium trip or holiday, they will pay 1.5tfp, on a JA (or a JA done add-on/pick up) they will pay 2tfp each.
This can be quite lucrative. I once did 3 engine runs and a ground repo for one minor hydraulic leak. Found some fluid under an engine. Maintenance comes out, we start the motor to confirm that it's still leaking, they fix it in about 15 minutes, we start it again to confirm that the leak stopped, then had the ramp crew push us off the gate so we could test the reverser and confirm it didn't leak that way too, then pulled us back onto the gate. I was on a premium trip, so all this ended up paying 6tfp for about 45 minutes of time, during which we did 8 minutes of work (minute for each start, 5 minutes to push 100feet back off the gate and get pulled back in). The longest part was waiting for maintenance to show up. The captain had no clue about this provision in the contract and wanted to go and grab breakfast, but I told him that if we did that, maintenance would do all that without us if we left. Because I knew about this, he made $1000 for 8 minutes of work instead of spending $38 on a California airport breakfast sandwich.
Bottom line: never ever leave the airplane if you suspect a maintenance issue might cause an engine start, and never just "try" a second start to see if you fixed the problem/the problem fixed itself. Always do it at the direction of maintenance (this helps with preventing violations too).
Another thing that I've learned to do over the years is keep an eye on days when I'm duty rigged. This requires a little bit more backbone because scheduling pushes back sometimes, but is perfectly legal. If the company mandated van time gets you to the airport obscenely early (CLE, ORF, SLC, etc), I call scheduling and have them adjust my report time back to the time that I actually got there. This takes a little bit of the sting out of getting to the gate 45 minutes prior to your show time. Same thing if the hotel van takes forever to get you to your hotel. I call and have them adjust my duty off time to when I actually get there.
The reason I say this takes a little bit of backbone is because generally you'll get transferred to a supervisor because the scheduler has "never heard of that being done". If the supervisor says they don't usually adjust the times, i justify it to them by saying that "I just want everybody on the same page that the company required me to get to XXX airport at xxx am so I'll be basing all my legalities off of that time instead of what was originally scheduled" or "make sure the start time of my rest properly reflects that it took me an hour and a half to get to the hotel". Never get push back after that, and even though it's not as much cash as picking up at 2nd year or premium, it adds up pretty quickly at the duty rig of .74tfp per hour, and it comes at a cost of 0 block.
I highlighted what really needs to be driven home for new hires. I've seen people get panicked to see their projected total get low, when in reality, that's one of the best things that can happen to them as first year guys looking to maximize their pay.
11-13-2021, 10:55 AM
#18
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2016
Position: Left
Posts: 1,260
As far as bidding into a conflict. That is good advice for anyone who is on reserve and does not want to be. Pick up a trip end of month into the next month to get rid of reserve day . We are in crazy times right now ,but typically if you can get it down to one or two days of reserve , somebody will take it, especially if it is a weekday.
That goes for new captains also, Which there will be a lot of in 2022.
That goes for new captains also, Which there will be a lot of in 2022.
11-13-2021, 11:48 AM
#19
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2015
Posts: 833
This is a good one. I'm surprised at how many pilots are not aware of when they cross into duty rig. I'm very aware, and while I'm not going to "steal" from the company, when I hit the duty rig I'm making $2.18/min and don't really care what's going on...I'm not fixing other peoples problems when the rig meter kicks in.
11-13-2021, 06:44 PM
#20
Line Holder
Joined APC: Mar 2013
Posts: 54
As far as bidding into a conflict. That is good advice for anyone who is on reserve and does not want to be. Pick up a trip end of month into the next month to get rid of reserve day . We are in crazy times right now ,but typically if you can get it down to one or two days of reserve , somebody will take it, especially if it is a weekday.
That goes for new captains also, Which there will be a lot of in 2022.
That goes for new captains also, Which there will be a lot of in 2022.
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