Upgrade times
10-22-2022, 06:42 AM
#1661
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2013
Position: The right seat
Posts: 257
I’ve been commuting to reserve for a little over a month. The cons outweigh the pros, but it’s not as bad as I feared it would be. (That said, we haven’t the holiday loads or winter weather yet). Costs are higher than I expected. Commuter hotels, drinks/meals for the crew from time to time. Uber.
Time at home is significantly less than before. Part of that is my preference for AMs when commuting. I leave the house around 14:30 on my last day off to catch a 16:30 flight so that I get into base in time for about 8 hours of sleep before my RAP begins. So 2.5 days off at home per week is about all I really can hope for. Less on the overlap due to lack of bidding power. (You know it’s rough when you are considering scheduling that colonoscopy you’ve been putting off, just to get a little extra time off.) 🤣
Reserve is busy. Haven’t had to call in fatigued yet, but there have been some exhausting days. These definitely aren’t the kinds of trips/lines I was bidding six months ago. If it weren’t for the fact that they send you back to the school house to downgrade, I’d probably bid back for another year until I could hold it in base. After a month at the training center I don’t want to go back anytime soon.
That said, all the reasons why I wanted to upgrade still exist. Still concerned about age 67 after the new congress. Still concerned about being in the left seat in the event of a merger or recession resulting in stagnation. Still want to be paid Captain rates for sick leave, STD, LTD if it were to become necessary. And I wasn’t a varsity player with premium etc. Pretty much just flew my line, maybe added a day or two here and there. So the pay raise is noticeable.
Feel free to DM me if you have specific questions about what things have been like to help you make your decision.
Time at home is significantly less than before. Part of that is my preference for AMs when commuting. I leave the house around 14:30 on my last day off to catch a 16:30 flight so that I get into base in time for about 8 hours of sleep before my RAP begins. So 2.5 days off at home per week is about all I really can hope for. Less on the overlap due to lack of bidding power. (You know it’s rough when you are considering scheduling that colonoscopy you’ve been putting off, just to get a little extra time off.) 🤣
Reserve is busy. Haven’t had to call in fatigued yet, but there have been some exhausting days. These definitely aren’t the kinds of trips/lines I was bidding six months ago. If it weren’t for the fact that they send you back to the school house to downgrade, I’d probably bid back for another year until I could hold it in base. After a month at the training center I don’t want to go back anytime soon.
That said, all the reasons why I wanted to upgrade still exist. Still concerned about age 67 after the new congress. Still concerned about being in the left seat in the event of a merger or recession resulting in stagnation. Still want to be paid Captain rates for sick leave, STD, LTD if it were to become necessary. And I wasn’t a varsity player with premium etc. Pretty much just flew my line, maybe added a day or two here and there. So the pay raise is noticeable.
Feel free to DM me if you have specific questions about what things have been like to help you make your decision.
10-22-2022, 07:46 AM
#1662
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2014
Posts: 160
Thanks Zap. It looks like I will be facing the choice some time in 2023. Your insight is incredibly valuable to those of us that face the same decision.
I have long said I would wait for the upgrade until I was in base. That is still my plan but it is ever so tempting when you get closer and get “that” Captain. Truly 99% of our captains are great, but there is that 1%.
I have long said I would wait for the upgrade until I was in base. That is still my plan but it is ever so tempting when you get closer and get “that” Captain. Truly 99% of our captains are great, but there is that 1%.
10-22-2022, 08:09 AM
#1663
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2013
Posts: 3,665
Thanks for the honest outlook.
Agree that commuting to reserve here is pretty bad. I did it for over a year and don't want to go back to doing that again any time soon.
With a big bubble of upgrades allegedly coming early next year, I will have a big decision to make regarding QOL vs pay (all the other captain stuff is superfluous to me).
I think I am going to change my criteria from "any one leg commute without an etops lock" to "any one leg commute where I can hold a line without an etops lock". So yeah, may be a while.
Being a senior FO is some pretty tall cotton. Lance is another wild card as well.
Agree that commuting to reserve here is pretty bad. I did it for over a year and don't want to go back to doing that again any time soon.
With a big bubble of upgrades allegedly coming early next year, I will have a big decision to make regarding QOL vs pay (all the other captain stuff is superfluous to me).
I think I am going to change my criteria from "any one leg commute without an etops lock" to "any one leg commute where I can hold a line without an etops lock". So yeah, may be a while.
Being a senior FO is some pretty tall cotton. Lance is another wild card as well.
10-22-2022, 10:04 AM
#1665
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2016
Posts: 252
I’ve been commuting to reserve for a little over a month. The cons outweigh the pros, but it’s not as bad as I feared it would be. (That said, we haven’t the holiday loads or winter weather yet). Costs are higher than I expected. Commuter hotels, drinks/meals for the crew from time to time. Uber.
.
.
That is some great insight. Thanks for sharing it.
10-22-2022, 10:08 AM
#1666
Furloughed Again?!
Joined APC: Aug 2007
Position: Boeing 737
Posts: 4,804
Thanks Zap. It looks like I will be facing the choice some time in 2023. Your insight is incredibly valuable to those of us that face the same decision.
I have long said I would wait for the upgrade until I was in base. That is still my plan but it is ever so tempting when you get closer and get “that” Captain. Truly 99% of our captains are great, but there is that 1%.
I have long said I would wait for the upgrade until I was in base. That is still my plan but it is ever so tempting when you get closer and get “that” Captain. Truly 99% of our captains are great, but there is that 1%.
I know what you mean. Once some of your classmates take it, you can't help but start wondering "how bad could it be?"
10-22-2022, 12:33 PM
#1667
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2010
Position: DOWNGRADE COMPLETE: Thanks Gary. Thanks SWAPA.
Posts: 6,802
Thanks Zap. It looks like I will be facing the choice some time in 2023. Your insight is incredibly valuable to those of us that face the same decision.
I have long said I would wait for the upgrade until I was in base. That is still my plan but it is ever so tempting when you get closer and get “that” Captain. Truly 99% of our captains are great, but there is that 1%.
I have long said I would wait for the upgrade until I was in base. That is still my plan but it is ever so tempting when you get closer and get “that” Captain. Truly 99% of our captains are great, but there is that 1%.
Don’t be in a rush to upgrade just to fly with people that aren’t unpleasant because you’ll be in for a rude awakening.
10-22-2022, 12:58 PM
#1668
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2013
Posts: 3,665
To be honest, after spending three years in the right seat after “crossing over”, I can honestly say there’s 2-3X more people in the right seat that are “unpleasant” to fly with than those in the left seat. Weird, I know but ask your friends that are captains at SWA and I’ll bet you they tell you the same thing.
Don’t be in a rush to upgrade just to fly with people that aren’t unpleasant because you’ll be in for a rude awakening.
Don’t be in a rush to upgrade just to fly with people that aren’t unpleasant because you’ll be in for a rude awakening.
While this may be true (doubt it highly), it's a lot easier for a captain to set the tone than it is for the FO.
I have gotten to the point where I take very little sh!t off of anyone, but there is also a calculus that takes place in my head on whether the effort expended by me to put this dickwad in his place is worth it for the time we have left together.
Sometimes it's easier to just stare out the window and let him wax poetic about vaccines, politics, conspiracies, financial advice, divorces, hookups, GA flying, lake house renovations, and whatever else occupies the minds of lizard captains. I have also seen lots of goofy techniques and blatant AOM/FOM violations from a very small percentage of our captains, usually the same lizard captain suspects or just freaking weird dudes' club.
As a captain you can just say "let's not do it that way as long as we are together" or "watch any good shows on Netflix?" Or just turn your intercom off, which is what I honestly prefer anyway as do the majority of my peers.
10-22-2022, 01:33 PM
#1669
gets time off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,234
To be honest, after spending three years in the right seat after “crossing over”, I can honestly say there’s 2-3X more people in the right seat that are “unpleasant” to fly with than those in the left seat. Weird, I know but ask your friends that are captains at SWA and I’ll bet you they tell you the same thing.
Don’t be in a rush to upgrade just to fly with people that aren’t unpleasant because you’ll be in for a rude awakening.
Don’t be in a rush to upgrade just to fly with people that aren’t unpleasant because you’ll be in for a rude awakening.
10-22-2022, 02:48 PM
#1670
7.27%
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: Boeing
Posts: 543
While this may be true (doubt it highly), it's a lot easier for a captain to set the tone than it is for the FO.
I have gotten to the point where I take very little sh!t off of anyone, but there is also a calculus that takes place in my head on whether the effort expended by me to put this dickwad in his place is worth it for the time we have left together.
Sometimes it's easier to just stare out the window and let him wax poetic about vaccines, politics, conspiracies, financial advice, divorces, hookups, GA flying, lake house renovations, and whatever else occupies the minds of lizard captains. I have also seen lots of goofy techniques and blatant AOM/FOM violations from a very small percentage of our captains, usually the same lizard captain suspects or just freaking weird dudes' club.
As a captain you can just say "let's not do it that way as long as we are together" or "watch any good shows on Netflix?" Or just turn your intercom off, which is what I honestly prefer anyway as do the majority of my peers.
I have gotten to the point where I take very little sh!t off of anyone, but there is also a calculus that takes place in my head on whether the effort expended by me to put this dickwad in his place is worth it for the time we have left together.
Sometimes it's easier to just stare out the window and let him wax poetic about vaccines, politics, conspiracies, financial advice, divorces, hookups, GA flying, lake house renovations, and whatever else occupies the minds of lizard captains. I have also seen lots of goofy techniques and blatant AOM/FOM violations from a very small percentage of our captains, usually the same lizard captain suspects or just freaking weird dudes' club.
As a captain you can just say "let's not do it that way as long as we are together" or "watch any good shows on Netflix?" Or just turn your intercom off, which is what I honestly prefer anyway as do the majority of my peers.
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