Upgrade times
11-17-2021, 05:02 AM
#1061
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2013
Posts: 942
We are being told that the December vacancy bid is going to be NB focused so the potential for unfilled Captain slots on that one is even larger. Because of that we are hoping that the company will move more of the bids and flying to the mid-continent hubs of DEN, IAH, and ORD (heck maybe even some to CLE) Those would be less likely to go unfilled. Either way, I would expect the DEN Cap seniority mentioned above to get substantially more junior on the next bid, how junior will depend on how many of the bids the company decides to move into DEN from the West Coast???
All of this is based on a huge influx of planes next year coupled with a strange confluence of COVID flying and probation rules. At UA to hold a Captain bid you must be both off probation and have flown over 500 hours at UA. Because of COVID we have a good number of pilots that have completed probation but do not yet have the 500 hours. This is especially true for those 2019 hires that were on the airbus during the height of COVID as that fleet had less flying so the reserves were almost never used. That coupled with all of the 800 new hires this year are still on probation, so I am sure well over a 1000 pilots on the bottom of the list were not eligible for the award. A good couple hundred of them will become eligible over the next month or two as flying has returned domestically so all those airbus folks are flying much more. However the actual post COVID (if that is a thing) hiring didn't start until last spring so we are still prob 6 months from any of those bottom 800 folks completing probation.
11-17-2021, 05:59 AM
#1062
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2016
Posts: 101
I know I’ll come across as a Kool aid drinker (which I’m not), but the 1221 pilot WARN letters among thousands of other SWA employees was nothing more than a political ploy by GK to help push for PSP2 money in time for congress to pass it in early Jan; hence the awful timing before Christmas. Doesn’t make it any less effed up , but it is what it is. As a non recipient and not as emotionally affected by it, that’s exactly how I saw it at the time, and it appears I was correct.
And I wouldn’t say you’re “correct.” Because we don’t know for sure how it would’ve played out without CARES.
But I’m guessing, SWA would have furloughed just like everyone else if CARES hadn’t passed.
other airlines didn’t furlough due to Fed money, and surprise, SWA didn’t furlough because of Fed money either.
SWA is no different these days among the big 4 when it comes to labor relations/furloughing/pay cuts/etc. SWAPA has sued the company 3-4 times over the last 2 years wanting money/etc.
You think GK et al gives a darn about “culture?” OR after dealing with all that, the ‘bottom line?”
If they were just bluffing, SWA could’ve just verbally threatened furloughs. but they sent out actual WARN letters right before Christmas. That’s ‘heart’-less. No LUV. That’s some awesome “culture” right there.
SWA isn’t a bad place to work, it’s just not “special” anymore.
Last edited by Reese; 11-17-2021 at 06:14 AM.
11-17-2021, 06:14 AM
#1063
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2016
Position: Left
Posts: 1,258
yes, koolaid drinker indeed.
And I wouldn’t say you’re “correct.” Because we don’t know for sure how it would’ve played out without CARES.
But I’m guessing, SWA would have furloughed just like everyone else if CARES hadn’t passed.
other airlines didn’t furlough due to Fed money, and surprise, SWA didn’t furlough because of Fed money either.
SWA is no different these days among the big 4 when it comes to labor relations/furloughing/pay cuts/etc. SWAPA has sued the company 3-4 times over the last 2 years wanting money/etc.
You think GK et al gives a darn about “culture?” OR after dealing with all that, the ‘bottom line?”
SWA could’ve just verbally threatened furloughs, but they sent out actual WARN letters right before Christmas. That’s ‘heart’-less. No LUV. That’s some awesome “culture” right there.
SWA isn’t a bad place to work, it’s just not “special” anymore.
And I wouldn’t say you’re “correct.” Because we don’t know for sure how it would’ve played out without CARES.
But I’m guessing, SWA would have furloughed just like everyone else if CARES hadn’t passed.
other airlines didn’t furlough due to Fed money, and surprise, SWA didn’t furlough because of Fed money either.
SWA is no different these days among the big 4 when it comes to labor relations/furloughing/pay cuts/etc. SWAPA has sued the company 3-4 times over the last 2 years wanting money/etc.
You think GK et al gives a darn about “culture?” OR after dealing with all that, the ‘bottom line?”
SWA could’ve just verbally threatened furloughs, but they sent out actual WARN letters right before Christmas. That’s ‘heart’-less. No LUV. That’s some awesome “culture” right there.
SWA isn’t a bad place to work, it’s just not “special” anymore.
This is the stone cold hard facts. I wish I could say any part of this was wrong. 5/20
11-17-2021, 06:22 AM
#1064
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2015
Posts: 105
Getting raked over the coals by Boeing and then COVID has led to a 3 year stretch the likes of which SWA has never seen. Coupled with what other airlines have to offer regarding career progression is going to make the next year or two interesting to watch. Finding new hires will not be an issue, retaining them is an entirely different story. I just finished a trip with a long(By SWA standards) overnight and no delays, reroutes or JA's. Pre MAX/COVID thats what every week was like. It was a very welcome reminder of how good this job can be. Dallas has their work cut out for them.
11-17-2021, 08:19 AM
#1065
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2010
Position: DOWNGRADE COMPLETE: Thanks Gary. Thanks SWAPA.
Posts: 6,802
Getting raked over the coals by Boeing and then COVID has led to a 3 year stretch the likes of which SWA has never seen. Coupled with what other airlines have to offer regarding career progression is going to make the next year or two interesting to watch. Finding new hires will not be an issue, retaining them is an entirely different story. I just finished a trip with a long(By SWA standards) overnight and no delays, reroutes or JA's. Pre MAX/COVID thats what every week was like. It was a very welcome reminder of how good this job can be. Dallas has their work cut out for them.
LEVERAGE!!!
11-17-2021, 08:45 AM
#1066
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2020
Posts: 128
We are just like all the others BUT we pay for parking, LTD,STD, LOL etc etc etc…. We are a regional with light twins, oh wait Envoy is paying 185K in bonus PLUS a flow through to big AA. We are Cape Air only painted blue.
The WARN letter was worse than it seems. Sure we all knew it was a political move. We all knew that BUT that’s worse than a financial move. If the place is financially falling apart and a WARN is sent out we can rationally justify it. This one was not financially motivated. The timing was not financially motivated. It was too invoke fear in the government that even big bad Southwest was going to eat it’s young. That means 1221 pilots with families were pawns…pawns in a game for government cheese. They treat family members that way? They threaten to kill off 1221 pilots that are family members to play a game? That’s insulting. I have no LUV for this place. I will drain every dollar out of this place and leave it a shell of itself if I can. I don’t help at all with wheelchairs and I don’t help with anything but my job. I will remember what GK and the LUV did to me and 1220 others.
On a side note I can not afford anymore stupid gifts from GK. Every gift I get costs me money….how about stock options GK? How about cash into retirement? For 120K points with accompanying taxes I do what I want and you can deal with the consequences.
The WARN letter was worse than it seems. Sure we all knew it was a political move. We all knew that BUT that’s worse than a financial move. If the place is financially falling apart and a WARN is sent out we can rationally justify it. This one was not financially motivated. The timing was not financially motivated. It was too invoke fear in the government that even big bad Southwest was going to eat it’s young. That means 1221 pilots with families were pawns…pawns in a game for government cheese. They treat family members that way? They threaten to kill off 1221 pilots that are family members to play a game? That’s insulting. I have no LUV for this place. I will drain every dollar out of this place and leave it a shell of itself if I can. I don’t help at all with wheelchairs and I don’t help with anything but my job. I will remember what GK and the LUV did to me and 1220 others.
On a side note I can not afford anymore stupid gifts from GK. Every gift I get costs me money….how about stock options GK? How about cash into retirement? For 120K points with accompanying taxes I do what I want and you can deal with the consequences.
11-17-2021, 08:51 AM
#1068
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,029
We are just like all the others BUT we pay for parking, LTD,STD, LOL etc etc etc…. We are a regional with light twins, oh wait Envoy is paying 185K in bonus PLUS a flow through to big AA. We are Cape Air only painted blue.
The WARN letter was worse than it seems. Sure we all knew it was a political move. We all knew that BUT that’s worse than a financial move. If the place is financially falling apart and a WARN is sent out we can rationally justify it. This one was not financially motivated. The timing was not financially motivated. It was too invoke fear in the government that even big bad Southwest was going to eat it’s young. That means 1221 pilots with families were pawns…pawns in a game for government cheese. They treat family members that way? They threaten to kill off 1221 pilots that are family members to play a game? That’s insulting. I have no LUV for this place. I will drain every dollar out of this place and leave it a shell of itself if I can. I don’t help at all with wheelchairs and I don’t help with anything but my job. I will remember what GK and the LUV did to me and 1220 others.
On a side note I can not afford anymore stupid gifts from GK. Every gift I get costs me money….how about stock options GK? How about cash into retirement? For 120K points with accompanying taxes I do what I want and you can deal with the consequences.
The WARN letter was worse than it seems. Sure we all knew it was a political move. We all knew that BUT that’s worse than a financial move. If the place is financially falling apart and a WARN is sent out we can rationally justify it. This one was not financially motivated. The timing was not financially motivated. It was too invoke fear in the government that even big bad Southwest was going to eat it’s young. That means 1221 pilots with families were pawns…pawns in a game for government cheese. They treat family members that way? They threaten to kill off 1221 pilots that are family members to play a game? That’s insulting. I have no LUV for this place. I will drain every dollar out of this place and leave it a shell of itself if I can. I don’t help at all with wheelchairs and I don’t help with anything but my job. I will remember what GK and the LUV did to me and 1220 others.
On a side note I can not afford anymore stupid gifts from GK. Every gift I get costs me money….how about stock options GK? How about cash into retirement? For 120K points with accompanying taxes I do what I want and you can deal with the consequences.
Preach it brother (or sister)!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
11-17-2021, 09:08 AM
#1069
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2015
Posts: 1,173
Most of the gripes here seem to stem from almost 2 years of stagnation and displacements due to an onslaught of random crises out of our control, to include the MAX crashes abroad and then finally COVID. I feel for those that got caught without decent seniority when all the music stopped and I would be equally disheartened. In the same breath, seniority is life. Personally I wouldn’t follow in someone like Zaps footsteps, forever chasing greener pastures just to potentially be disappointed 6 years later when the landscape changes yet again. (Nothing against you zap, just my opinion)
I know I’ll come across as a Kool aid drinker (which I’m not), but the 1221 pilot WARN letters among thousands of other SWA employees was nothing more than a political ploy by GK to help push for PSP2 money in time for congress to pass it in early Jan; hence the awful timing before Christmas. Doesn’t make it any less effed up , but it is what it is. As a non recipient and not as emotionally affected by it, that’s exactly how I saw it at the time, and it appears I was correct.
Currently, I’m more concerned by what feels more and more like this place has no one coherent at the wheel of what’s feeling like it’s being steered by tone deaf leaders on a rudderless ship. We’ll see what our new CEO brings to the table in the coming months.
Hopefully when we get some momentum with new hires, returned seniority progression and above all, a solidly improved new contract, things will improve.
I know I’ll come across as a Kool aid drinker (which I’m not), but the 1221 pilot WARN letters among thousands of other SWA employees was nothing more than a political ploy by GK to help push for PSP2 money in time for congress to pass it in early Jan; hence the awful timing before Christmas. Doesn’t make it any less effed up , but it is what it is. As a non recipient and not as emotionally affected by it, that’s exactly how I saw it at the time, and it appears I was correct.
Currently, I’m more concerned by what feels more and more like this place has no one coherent at the wheel of what’s feeling like it’s being steered by tone deaf leaders on a rudderless ship. We’ll see what our new CEO brings to the table in the coming months.
Hopefully when we get some momentum with new hires, returned seniority progression and above all, a solidly improved new contract, things will improve.
11-17-2021, 09:09 AM
#1070
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2012
Position: 737 CA
Posts: 508
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
