Proximity

Not specific to UAL...all our peers managed to to work with management to develop agreements surrounding all aspects of covid, from contact notifications, sick pay, and vaccinations. Southwest, which has some of the poorest labor relations in the industry currently, refused to work with SWAPA.

United - This is a very high level summary, but the pilot group was spilt into thirds where the top group was mostly unaffected, the mid group would take a reduction in guarantee, and the bottom group would receive reduced pay. It was mostly a wash for the mid group, since most were headed towards a downgrade without an agreement. The bottom group would have been furloughed anyways. Then thanks to PSP, the junior group was made whole. Importantly, nobody was put on leave or retrained, so the company remained flexible and is able to support their original schedule. Both sides knew it would take the company years to retrain pilots if they furloughed, so a mostly win-win agreement was made.

Southwest - Management went to the union and said "we want to 10% pay cut from the pilots or else". And the union said "or else what, show us your data.". And labor relations said, "nope, just give us 10%". So the company sends out WARN letters right before Christmas with dates way in the future. By the time those dates came, we were basically back to 90% of the 2019 schedule. By summer our performance went down the drain as we'd let many pilots out with VSP and didn't have the resources to bring back all the exTO pilots.

Since I'm not a stockholder in the company I work out and never plan to be (except for a few days that it takes to receive and sell the discounted stock), I'm not overly concerned with performance. I believe that Southwest, United, and Delta would be around for the years I have left. What does concern me is the degradation of our onboard product, from our pathetic internet to our decline in hospitality. Consumers hold Southwest in high regard, but we are perilously close to losing that goodwill as the issues continue to mount. Been on Delta recently? If you have, it might make you worry also.

There are some really good things here. But there are some areas we do badly at, and we should recognize these failings and try to do better.

Zman81

How am I a koolaid drinker? I was defending our contract that SWAPA negotiated for us. Our contract that has nothing to do with management! As for going to United, people should leave and now is the time to do it. Do you realize that someone who has 4-5 years seniority could jump to United go to Denver upgrade there and see Denver faster as a captain at United!! But to sit there and say that based on the luck of timing their contract is better then ours cause they have more retirements is simply not true! Don’t get me wrong there is a lot of things we can improve in our contract. But to make it sound like some inferior POS is NOT TRUE. If I was starting our day 1 would SWA be my first choice ? Absolutely NOT!

Black Coffee

No one was making 50% pay at United. That was negotiated with the pilots in case cares act was not passed. If cares was not passed you would have been on the street at SWA. Don't kid yourselves.

4V14T0R

In no particular order: Disability, Training, Pay Scale, per diem, profit share, reserve rules, vacation value is debatable, sick buyback, hotels, medicals, parking, uniforms. There's a seller's market and as usual SWA is slow to respond. How about all the grievances, hindsight, etc. Why has SWAPA been stonewalled every step of the way? Once again I'd rather not jump through the hoops of getting hired at another carrier. I'd rather fight to make this a better place.


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Zman81

Absolutely we all should want those things to make this place better 100%. But I feel and what I hear is alot of the angst is from upgrade times and slow seniority progression. That effects QOL issues which effects captain upgrade pay, holiday bidding, days worked, length of time being on reserve fo/captain etc. A contract will NOT fix those items only movement and retirements can which we unfortunately do not have here at this time. That’s why and I am being 100% honest if I was a 4-5 year FO I would leave. Cause no contract can fix those things I listed above.

4V14T0R

I agree growth and retirement is the only way to effect upgrade, but QOL is not solely based on upgrade. Look at all the reassignments and JAs. Why is there so much weekend and holiday flying? Almost 50% of lines fly on Christmas Day. I find that insane. All the shifting of pilots out west to be trained for ETOPS only to have return rights as soon as new hires come on line. 20% reserves because "pilot sick calls" all because the company can't do math. There is just so much absurdity it's astounding. This company has seemingly lost its mind. Maybe it happened a long time ago and COVID is shining a brighter light on it.


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tyler durden

Right or wrong, it’s a buyers market and (sadly for WN) most aspiring candidates have no idea about the ins and outs of contracts. Most only see pay scales on APC, upgrade times, wide body opportunities etc. Obviously a lot goes into decisions, but at a glance, SW has its work cut out of it’s looking to compete for the ever-diminishing pool out there.

Given WN management’s propensity to deny, stall and delay contracts, this may not end well.

Spark

I’m not holding my breath, but I wouldn’t be surprised to see a TA later this summer once management realizes that the only way we’re going to come close to hiring the numbers they’re after is going to be with a solid contract. Call me naïve, but I could see it happening.

flyguy81

If mgt was smart they’d lock us in before everyone else signs and we +1 their TA’s. If SWAPA is smart they’ll negotiate a “me too” like UAL had with DL to bring us to pay parity should we be left behind….again.

ZapBrannigan

Parity + 1%. Where have I heard that before?

#ALPA99