RJSAviator76

And there we have it, ladies and gentlemen. "Not worth it." Why isn't it worth it, Lew?

My beef with you is not disagreement with you - quite the opposite. It's your defeatist attitude coupled with your disdain for this pilot group. If you want to have a healthy debate Lew, you gotta bring up the specifics. The closest you came to it was talking about the RLA, so I'll even extend you an olive branch and talk squarely the RLA.

The last go at it, and ever since, you were annoyed that we "weren't using the RLA to our advantage." Care to expand on that? What would you have done differently? Here's your chart:



As you say, it's a long way to self-help with multiple 3rd party checks before getting released to the next point. Since one of the mediator threats was to "put us on ice", what, in your opinion, should have been our strategy around it? This is what I'm talking about - specifics. I know the mediators are even allowed to, shall we say, stretch the truth, in order to keep the parties negotiating and press on so if the needle even barely gets moved, they can keep you stuck at that particular step for quite a while. Where did Casey and SWAPA drop the ball with the regards to our approach, in your opinion? You keep saying how we don't know the RLA process. What are we missing? I mean that. How do you think SWAPA should have balanced the time value of actual gains vs. potential gains in the RLA process? Again, specifics.

On a slightly separate note, speaking of specifics, did you read the April RP with, you guessed it, specific changes sought, section by section, of our contract? Specifics, Lew. They matter. And again gonna repeat myself... you're not wrong. So since your approach sucks... go arounds are free. Come back and try again.

Lewbronski

RJS

Since you've forgotten more than I'll ever know about the RLA and you brought up the classic threat: "But the mediator threatened to put us on ice", why don't you explain to me a strategy to counter that?

Or do we just respond by saying, "Welp, I guess that's it. We better agree to what's on the table or the mediator will put us on ice"?

madduck

if i thought it'd get him to open his mind...i'd consider it.
i know it wouldn't, so me ending up in a bad place due to assault wont do any of us any good.
well...it'd help you and him, you two would move up a seniority number.
HEY! i see what youre trying to do!

RJSAviator76

Again, here we go with the one liners and "well, what do YOU say?"

You're the one who brought it up, brother. Better yet, you're the one who apparently has all the answers and who says we can use the RLA to benefit us in good times. Excellent. Show us how. Educate us. Show us what every SWAPA voter, or even some ALPA or APA cousin might be missing. Hell, you'll only help. I engaged and gave you an opening. Why won't you take it? Why won't you give your answers? Do you even have any?

You are so critical of and you insinuate that this pilot group and our union leadership, at least from 2016 onwards, are ignorant. Great... show us how. You also have 1221 pilots who were shown some serious "luv" and a few weeks ago, you were trashing THEM saying you have no faith that they'd vote against subpar offers. Seize that moment and further motivate them with your knowledge. Do what JL did. Make presentations. Defend your points. Offer counterpoints. JL was one of the guys whose reasonable, strong points and arguments were instrumental in cementing my no vote the last go. On the other hand, your posts are only motivating me to scroll right past them because you offer zero substance aside from coming across high and mighty and offer nothing but disdain for the pilot group without offering any solutions or points of your own. If that's your thing, OK. Maybe I was mistaken to think you actually had something other than trash-talk.

Lewbronski

RJS,

Again, you're excellent at playing the pot calling the kettle black. Your comment about trash-talk is especially precious. I'm glad you're optimistic about what this pilot group will accomplish in C2020. I'm not. There's 50 years of history here that leads to me being less hopeful than you. I sincerely hope you're right, though. Have a good one.

Zman81

I still would take our contract any day of the week over any legacy contract. We have better rigs, we have better vacation overlap, we have better SCOPE, etc. Have you seen United and Delta’s pairings ? No thanks. My point is and this isn’t directed at you. It’s for everyone, you have to know what you have before fighting for other things. I believe this SWAPA will fix a lot of what people don’t like.

Jeff Lebowski

My priorities for the next contract:

1: Apples-to-apples pay comparison. No more of this 108 here equals 90 there nonsense.

2: Company-paid disability.

Everything else is window dressing, as far as I’m concerned.

Grumpyaviator

-Retiree healthcare with a bridge for those without ten years retainability.
-Retaining health and life insurance on LTD (most are not aware we lose it).
-Bidding for all training slots.
-Long/short hotels.
-All time off as PTO, possibly even vacation credit.
-Own your trip for reserves.
-Free from phone contact until report for reserves assigned trips.
-Long-call reserve
-A single source for all company open time (after initial line improvement, regardless of how far out)and pilot give away, available 24/7 and awarded immediately.
-We shouldn’t be limited to only trades with elitt but be able to pick it up after line initial line improvement closes.
-Our pay should equal 757 pay at other airlines. This will compensate for lack of widebody and international flying and attract future new-hires now that job security is no longer an attractant.
-And there’s more I can’t think of now.

Grumpyaviator

I have friends at other places, our contract lags. Those who went to other airlines make more than I in equivalent aircraft, add to that they upgrade faster and have even higher paying widebody and international options.

They fly half what I do and earn more. We make fun of their long layovers on the beach, but even with their 30+ hours off they still make more, with fewer duty days.

My friends that went to FedEx when I came here upgraded just prior to Covid, I’ll never get out of the right seat. They have better hotel rules, better reserve rules, better work rules, and QOL, etc.

To say we have them beat is pure denial. Even the regional I came from had a better contract than we in almost every area other than pay, including vacation.

We had PBS and I would never go back to that. But the rumor that PBS takes away all vacation flexibility is totally false. I was middle seniority and routinely converted one week to twenty-one days easily. It’s all in the rules you negotiate and how well you know your system. But again, I would never be in favor of going back to PBS.

Many here just don’t really know what they don’t know, because until the last few years the percentage of pilots that came from other airlines was relatively small.

Hobbit64

AMEN!
I no longer advocate the company to my friends who will be looking for a seat at the majors. They might as well get a spot on a legacy list somewhere. If you don’t have the security, might as well have the pay and work rules.
What once was a perceived benefit (historic security) was carelessly squandered in a foolish attempt at concessions and FM language.

Sad. What a failure on their part.
{ note the ‘us’ vs ‘them’ tone that they will see much more of by the 1221 co-hearts }