Originally Posted by hoover

I've heard from more than one person that they think we should only get paid for what we fly. No rigs or daily guarantee, or even guarantee. They like earning what they work for.

Originally Posted by hoover

I've heard from more than one person that they think we should only get paid for what we fly. No rigs or daily guarantee, or even guarantee. They like earning what they work for.

Originally Posted by 4V14T0R

Those people obviously don't understand the intent of those things.


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Originally Posted by e6bpilot

I think some of you need to take a good, pragmatic look at history and where we stand for the future.

When I got hired here in 2014, the super upbeat and optimistic hiring team told me to expect 3 years on reserve commuting to Oakland and a 15-20 year upgrade. There were a thousand airtran pilots to train, no organic hiring left, and we were being crushed by fuel costs and the competition.

The finance people came in to my new hire class and told us that we needed to help out and keep costs low so that maybe we could eek out a yearly profit and grow the airline. We were still the little, scrappy guy in their eyes, and if we could just hit 15 percent ROIC, maybe we could start having nice things.

Fast forward two years - I was never based in oakland, the company couldn't hire enough pilots, and SWA was making so much money that they literally ran out of places to put it. Another couple of years and we were hiring like there was no end in sight and I was suddenly in the upper third of my domicile FOs. If it kept up, I would upgrade at 7-8 years.

Then the max was grounded. Then Covid hit.

Now the company is back in doom and gloom comms mode. If you look at what they are doing, though, and not what they are saying, you can clearly see the writing on the wall.

They are recalling every single EXTO pilot that they can get through training this summer. They are adding cities. Load factors are through the roof, I am currently flying a mid April trip with full 800s every leg. The summer schedule looks packed and forward bookings are through the roof. They are training ETOPS pilots as fast as they can. Every flight attendant is being recalled from EXTO. Every training center instructor has been recalled from EXTO.

I know we have a way to go before we are dug out of the hole, but this is the same basic stage that we were in when I was hired. Things are about to get very good for the airline. We have smart people in charge of our network, planning, and finances. As long as the country continues this trajectory out of the COVID hole, this pilot group stands to benefit greatly in the next 2-3 years because we also have smart people in charge of our union and negotiating teams.

My advice - relax and let the process work it's way out. I see very good things in the future for us and the entire industry.

Originally Posted by WHACKMASTER

Completely agree. Load factors are booming. We’re poised to capture market share. We’re opening a bunch of new markets and just ordered another 100 MAX’s with 115 more options (which you know they will exercise).

Now for the big question. Are we as a pilot group gonna have a backbone and do what needs to be done to gain an improved contract?

Originally Posted by Caveman

Bid Straight, Bid Early, and Bid Often

Originally Posted by Lewbronski

So, no we won’t do what needs to be done. The sooner you accept that, the more you can detach from it and not stress yourself out when your fellow pilots once again sell all of us short.

Originally Posted by Lewbronski

Simple answer is NO.

This pilot group considers the SWAPA sunshade a huge quality of life win.

They think the RLA is their enemy and that mediation is arbitration and vice versa. They have no clue, and they never will, how to leverage the process in their favor because durrrrrrrrrr. Durrrrrrrrr being I have no idea why such simple concepts elude them, but they do and they always have. It’s as if we just don’t want to understand it. It’s not rocket science but to listen to our guys try to explain RLA strategy is an object lesson in why we are doomed.

The coup de grace is that the vast majority of our pilots are highly, highly conservative politically. Without getting into a discussion of the pros & cons of each side’s politics, on the organized labor issue, conservatives mostly oppose unions and favor corporations. Unions are viewed as generally evil and not really necessary by conservatives. It seems that, given our history here of not really mounting any kind of true organized labor movement to achieve any kind of real gains and ratifying sub-industry-standard contracts, most of our membership prioritizes their attachment to their political values over their own long-term financial health and over their own day-to-day living (work rules, hotels, vacation, medical, etc).

So, no we won’t do what needs to be done. The sooner you accept that, the more you can detach from it and not stress yourself out when your fellow pilots once again sell all of us short.

Originally Posted by Lewbronski

Simple answer is NO.

This pilot group considers the SWAPA sunshade a huge quality of life win.

They think the RLA is their enemy and that mediation is arbitration and vice versa. They have no clue, and they never will, how to leverage the process in their favor because durrrrrrrrrr. Durrrrrrrrr being I have no idea why such simple concepts elude them, but they do and they always have. It’s as if we just don’t want to understand it. It’s not rocket science but to listen to our guys try to explain RLA strategy is an object lesson in why we are doomed.

The coup de grace is that the vast majority of our pilots are highly, highly conservative politically. Without getting into a discussion of the pros & cons of each side’s politics, on the organized labor issue, conservatives mostly oppose unions and favor corporations. Unions are viewed as generally evil and not really necessary by conservatives. It seems that, given our history here of not really mounting any kind of true organized labor movement to achieve any kind of real gains and ratifying sub-industry-standard contracts, most of our membership prioritizes their attachment to their political values over their own long-term financial health and over their own day-to-day living (work rules, hotels, vacation, medical, etc).

So, no we won’t do what needs to be done. The sooner you accept that, the more you can detach from it and not stress yourself out when your fellow pilots once again sell all of us short.