All WARN notices rescinded
01-02-2021, 11:50 AM
#41
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,153
SWA pilots have felt for decades that their relationship with management was a true partnership. It takes a lot of experience, skill, and education to become a high level SWA executive, and pilots accept and respect that for the most part. Unfortunately the current CEO and apparently many in the management stack no longer see and respect the pilot group as partners who likewise bring a lot of experience, skill, and education to the job.
The consistent messaging from Gary Kelly is that he and his management team are the ONLY professionals in the company, and the pilots are grossly overpaid technicians, not partners. The resentment from mgt against the pilots as an overpriced expense category instead of highly qualified and professional PARTNERS just drips through every message we get from GK and his team, and it's a massive leadership fail.
The consistent messaging from Gary Kelly is that he and his management team are the ONLY professionals in the company, and the pilots are grossly overpaid technicians, not partners. The resentment from mgt against the pilots as an overpriced expense category instead of highly qualified and professional PARTNERS just drips through every message we get from GK and his team, and it's a massive leadership fail.
01-02-2021, 11:56 AM
#42
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2012
Posts: 2,030
Alternative view:
Southwest didn’t furlough any pilots during the worst economic disaster in its history. This despite the fact that the most profitable thing to do, by far, would have been to furlough, deeply, last summer.
Instead, it offered pretty generous early retirement and time off packages, at great cost to the bottom line.
At the end of the day, it treated its employees a lot better than other airlines (and most companies across all industries.)
I’m not saying they didn’t make mistakes, and the idea of threatening furloughs as a bargaining chip to get government aid wasn’t a good look, but the tone of absolute, unforgivable anger here seems, at least to me, pretty extreme.
Southwest didn’t furlough any pilots during the worst economic disaster in its history. This despite the fact that the most profitable thing to do, by far, would have been to furlough, deeply, last summer.
Instead, it offered pretty generous early retirement and time off packages, at great cost to the bottom line.
At the end of the day, it treated its employees a lot better than other airlines (and most companies across all industries.)
I’m not saying they didn’t make mistakes, and the idea of threatening furloughs as a bargaining chip to get government aid wasn’t a good look, but the tone of absolute, unforgivable anger here seems, at least to me, pretty extreme.
We didn’t take concessions or give in on FM and they were never going to furlough because they need to be ready for the additional destinations and flying. We called their bluff and this round of aid gave them the opportunity to back off without looking like they gave in.
They blamed the warn letters on everything from the government to union leaders to Covid and everything else. But the fact is, they deliberately used the current situation as leverage against the employees resulting in irreparable damage to the SWA culture. The good will is gone.
I’m now one of a majority who is just a number collecting a check, and they will pay big time in section 6. There will be no more patience while they stall and play games.
01-02-2021, 01:31 PM
#43
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2018
Posts: 1,264
Alternative view:
Southwest didn’t furlough any pilots during the worst economic disaster in its history. This despite the fact that the most profitable thing to do, by far, would have been to furlough, deeply, last summer.
Instead, it offered pretty generous early retirement and time off packages, at great cost to the bottom line.
At the end of the day, it treated its employees a lot better than other airlines (and most companies across all industries.)
I’m not saying they didn’t make mistakes, and the idea of threatening furloughs as a bargaining chip to get government aid wasn’t a good look, but the tone of absolute, unforgivable anger here seems, at least to me, pretty extreme.
Southwest didn’t furlough any pilots during the worst economic disaster in its history. This despite the fact that the most profitable thing to do, by far, would have been to furlough, deeply, last summer.
Instead, it offered pretty generous early retirement and time off packages, at great cost to the bottom line.
At the end of the day, it treated its employees a lot better than other airlines (and most companies across all industries.)
I’m not saying they didn’t make mistakes, and the idea of threatening furloughs as a bargaining chip to get government aid wasn’t a good look, but the tone of absolute, unforgivable anger here seems, at least to me, pretty extreme.
”DO NOT LET the koolies steal the narrative and try to convince you it was all good. That is coming. They will twist and distort what happened. They will attempt to gaslight you. They always do.”
01-02-2021, 01:45 PM
#44
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2012
Posts: 137
I’m not distorting anything. I didn’t say anything remotely like “it was all good”. Like I said, I think SWA has made mistakes. I also think they deserve credit for not furloughing anyone, unlike other airlines. Several things can be true at the same time.
if you have a specific point of mine you disagree with, great. Your statement doesn’t address anything specific.
01-02-2021, 02:22 PM
#45
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2018
Posts: 1,264
From nearly the day the government aid ran out, management has been threatening us with furloughs, pay cuts, and the gutting of our CBA (force majeure). The threat of furloughs ended the day the government cheese was restored. Maybe we have the government to thank for whatever goodness we've experienced during the covid crisis as opposed to the kindness of our company benefactors?
This is a business. It's not a family. They call us cohearts but treat us like cost units. These last several months have borne that out in undeniable fact. If you choose to ignore what is plainly obvious, then I can't help you. You do you.
Don't be mad going forward. Just treat the company like a business endeavor rather than a family. Because that's the reality.
01-02-2021, 04:25 PM
#47
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2018
Posts: 1,264
So, what you're saying is that SWA does not stand alone among airlines that didn't furlough pilots during the greatest economic challenge to ever face the industry? It sounds more like Allegiant and American stand along among bigger airlines in furloughing pilots.
01-02-2021, 06:48 PM
#48
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,920
Thank you. I stand corrected.
So, what you're saying is that SWA does not stand alone among airlines that didn't furlough pilots during the greatest economic challenge to ever face the industry? It sounds more like Allegiant and American stand along among bigger airlines in furloughing pilots.
So, what you're saying is that SWA does not stand alone among airlines that didn't furlough pilots during the greatest economic challenge to ever face the industry? It sounds more like Allegiant and American stand along among bigger airlines in furloughing pilots.
01-02-2021, 10:10 PM
#49
Line holder
Joined APC: Nov 2013
Position: On the bus,seat 0A
Posts: 3,332
01-02-2021, 10:41 PM
#50
Line Holder
Joined APC: Dec 2014
Posts: 49
Possibly extreme but I think perfectly understandable if you think about how SWA is set up and who they hire to drive the planes.
It's a side effect of the type of pilot (personality, etc) SWA has been preferentially hiring for decades. The undercurrent of barely controlled resentment over the "excess" hiring the company did over the last few years is another example of how this manifests and it ties right in to what happened with the 1221 WARN notices. I think the senior guys on the whole are doing a good job not expressing their resentment or holding it against the bottom 15%, but everyone knows that the top 85% took a pay cut and would be able to make more for the same work if the bottom 15% simply weren't on property, without impacting the company's ops or financial bottom line at all. Fortunately very few of the senior guys are resentful enough to actually hold it against the junior guys, but it is kind of uncomfortable as a junior pilot (most of us hired in the last 3 years) knowing that our mere presence represents an "unnecessary" schedule dilution and a pay cut.
Remember, SWA selectively hires people who want to fly MORE. Min guarantee is for suckers and slackers. So hiring people with the idea that they'll go WAY beyond flying their line and then (arguably unnecessarily) hiring more pilots so they CAN'T fly more, is going to cause some angst. Turning around when the company has a fat cash position and expressing clearly conflicting guidance on the urgent need to furlough just triggers even more disbelief. And suddenly all that angst built up over the intentional effort to not blame the junior pilots suddenly has an outlet.
SWA hires people who are biased to fly more.
Our contract rewards this behavior with several ways to get premium pay.
SWA managers HATE premium, and over-hire in addition to implementing wasteful policies to avoid premium flying, reducing the pay of those same eager pilots who thrive on flying more than their line.
Then SWA, sitting on 12Bn in cash, turns around and says they're going to furlough because they HAVE TO, over a measly $220 mil (the 10% pay cut they demanded), which is as blatant a lie as anyone here has ever seen or heard.
Of course there is rage. And of course those junior pilots, grateful to the senior pilots for not treating us like crap, are going to resent the company "leaders" who put us in this situation. It's custom built to encourage pilot group solidarity against what is seen as a direct assault on the pilot group and SWAPA, targeted against the exact personality traits they screened us for in the first place. It's like HR at the direction of our CEO intentionally hired people with a bright red RAGE button on their chest, then hired another group of people to intentionally push that button. It's divisive as hell, and we see it for what it is.
It's a side effect of the type of pilot (personality, etc) SWA has been preferentially hiring for decades. The undercurrent of barely controlled resentment over the "excess" hiring the company did over the last few years is another example of how this manifests and it ties right in to what happened with the 1221 WARN notices. I think the senior guys on the whole are doing a good job not expressing their resentment or holding it against the bottom 15%, but everyone knows that the top 85% took a pay cut and would be able to make more for the same work if the bottom 15% simply weren't on property, without impacting the company's ops or financial bottom line at all. Fortunately very few of the senior guys are resentful enough to actually hold it against the junior guys, but it is kind of uncomfortable as a junior pilot (most of us hired in the last 3 years) knowing that our mere presence represents an "unnecessary" schedule dilution and a pay cut.
Remember, SWA selectively hires people who want to fly MORE. Min guarantee is for suckers and slackers. So hiring people with the idea that they'll go WAY beyond flying their line and then (arguably unnecessarily) hiring more pilots so they CAN'T fly more, is going to cause some angst. Turning around when the company has a fat cash position and expressing clearly conflicting guidance on the urgent need to furlough just triggers even more disbelief. And suddenly all that angst built up over the intentional effort to not blame the junior pilots suddenly has an outlet.
SWA hires people who are biased to fly more.
Our contract rewards this behavior with several ways to get premium pay.
SWA managers HATE premium, and over-hire in addition to implementing wasteful policies to avoid premium flying, reducing the pay of those same eager pilots who thrive on flying more than their line.
Then SWA, sitting on 12Bn in cash, turns around and says they're going to furlough because they HAVE TO, over a measly $220 mil (the 10% pay cut they demanded), which is as blatant a lie as anyone here has ever seen or heard.
Of course there is rage. And of course those junior pilots, grateful to the senior pilots for not treating us like crap, are going to resent the company "leaders" who put us in this situation. It's custom built to encourage pilot group solidarity against what is seen as a direct assault on the pilot group and SWAPA, targeted against the exact personality traits they screened us for in the first place. It's like HR at the direction of our CEO intentionally hired people with a bright red RAGE button on their chest, then hired another group of people to intentionally push that button. It's divisive as hell, and we see it for what it is.
I fly min. guarantee quite regularly, and that suits me just fine. I guess my wife likes me being around. How does that make me a slacker or a sucker? C’mon man!
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