Feb ETO
12-18-2020, 07:01 AM
#11
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2010
Posts: 353
The objective of EXTO, VSP and, to a lesser extent ETO (excepting those who took it to protect themselves or family members from infection) was to reduce headcount - essentially to match supply with demand.
The company has already decided, in the month of February for example, how much flying they intend to do. Now they'll take the number of crews they have and attempt to build contractually compliant trips and lines.
Long before Covid and the Max, February was the month you expected to see a green bar. This February that effect will be amplified, easily making the case for the company that even after EXTO, VSP, and some monthly ETO we remain overstaffed. The green bar is the measure of our inefficiency.
EXTO is a sunk cost. Something the company has already agreed to - extracontractually unfortunately - to address the manning problem. ETO is still variable.
My thought was that if enough of us took ETO to shrink the green bar, we could have proven to the company that these voluntary programs work, and there would be less of a need to furlough in order to match capacity and demand. Yes, there is still a cost. But since the program is again extracontractual and company sponsored, they're telegraphing their willingness to allow us to solve the problem voluntarily.
The green bar is the problem. Line guarantee was meant to protect us against inefficient schedules, not as an underemployment program.
In the end, it's irrelevant. Only 157 people took it in the month of February. Less than 2% of active pilots. (The 1221 represent about 13.5%) At the end of the day "Keep Dean" has to be more than a slogan on a bag tag or a lanyard. We have to be willing to do something. If it's not a concession, then it's a voluntary program. If we do nothing, we do a disservice to our own pilots and what little culture remains will fall.
The company has already decided, in the month of February for example, how much flying they intend to do. Now they'll take the number of crews they have and attempt to build contractually compliant trips and lines.
Long before Covid and the Max, February was the month you expected to see a green bar. This February that effect will be amplified, easily making the case for the company that even after EXTO, VSP, and some monthly ETO we remain overstaffed. The green bar is the measure of our inefficiency.
EXTO is a sunk cost. Something the company has already agreed to - extracontractually unfortunately - to address the manning problem. ETO is still variable.
My thought was that if enough of us took ETO to shrink the green bar, we could have proven to the company that these voluntary programs work, and there would be less of a need to furlough in order to match capacity and demand. Yes, there is still a cost. But since the program is again extracontractual and company sponsored, they're telegraphing their willingness to allow us to solve the problem voluntarily.
The green bar is the problem. Line guarantee was meant to protect us against inefficient schedules, not as an underemployment program.
In the end, it's irrelevant. Only 157 people took it in the month of February. Less than 2% of active pilots. (The 1221 represent about 13.5%) At the end of the day "Keep Dean" has to be more than a slogan on a bag tag or a lanyard. We have to be willing to do something. If it's not a concession, then it's a voluntary program. If we do nothing, we do a disservice to our own pilots and what little culture remains will fall.
12-18-2020, 07:45 AM
#14
At your mom's house
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: cpt 737
Posts: 2,798
The objective of EXTO, VSP and, to a lesser extent ETO (excepting those who took it to protect themselves or family members from infection) was to reduce headcount - essentially to match supply with demand.
The company has already decided, in the month of February for example, how much flying they intend to do. Now they'll take the number of crews they have and attempt to build contractually compliant trips and lines.
Long before Covid and the Max, February was the month you expected to see a green bar. This February that effect will be amplified, easily making the case for the company that even after EXTO, VSP, and some monthly ETO we remain overstaffed. The green bar is the measure of our inefficiency.
EXTO is a sunk cost. Something the company has already agreed to - extracontractually unfortunately - to address the manning problem. ETO is still variable.
My thought was that if enough of us took ETO to shrink the green bar, we could have proven to the company that these voluntary programs work, and there would be less of a need to furlough in order to match capacity and demand. Yes, there is still a cost. But since the program is again extracontractual and company sponsored, they're telegraphing their willingness to allow us to solve the problem voluntarily.
The green bar is the problem. Line guarantee was meant to protect us against inefficient schedules, not as an underemployment program.
In the end, it's irrelevant. Only 157 people took it in the month of February. Less than 2% of active pilots. (The 1221 represent about 13.5%) At the end of the day "Keep Dean" has to be more than a slogan on a bag tag or a lanyard. We have to be willing to do something. If it's not a concession, then it's a voluntary program. If we do nothing, we do a disservice to our own pilots and what little culture remains will fall.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
The company has already decided, in the month of February for example, how much flying they intend to do. Now they'll take the number of crews they have and attempt to build contractually compliant trips and lines.
Long before Covid and the Max, February was the month you expected to see a green bar. This February that effect will be amplified, easily making the case for the company that even after EXTO, VSP, and some monthly ETO we remain overstaffed. The green bar is the measure of our inefficiency.
EXTO is a sunk cost. Something the company has already agreed to - extracontractually unfortunately - to address the manning problem. ETO is still variable.
My thought was that if enough of us took ETO to shrink the green bar, we could have proven to the company that these voluntary programs work, and there would be less of a need to furlough in order to match capacity and demand. Yes, there is still a cost. But since the program is again extracontractual and company sponsored, they're telegraphing their willingness to allow us to solve the problem voluntarily.
The green bar is the problem. Line guarantee was meant to protect us against inefficient schedules, not as an underemployment program.
In the end, it's irrelevant. Only 157 people took it in the month of February. Less than 2% of active pilots. (The 1221 represent about 13.5%) At the end of the day "Keep Dean" has to be more than a slogan on a bag tag or a lanyard. We have to be willing to do something. If it's not a concession, then it's a voluntary program. If we do nothing, we do a disservice to our own pilots and what little culture remains will fall.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
if the company truly was wanting to cut costs then they would entertain the ideas the union has presented. I think Jon's emails have been pretty clear where the company's priorities are.
I wish we as a group would stop trying to solve the company's made up problems. The only way they stop threatening is if they get what they want and everyone agrees that is not going to happen. I can appreciate the effort from the group, I'm on ExTO and was hoping that would do the trick but unfortunately we are being played and we should act accordingly from now on out.
12-18-2020, 08:09 AM
#15
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2018
Posts: 1,264
12-18-2020, 09:05 AM
#16
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,153
If I take ETO it'll be to get some time off, not to help the company. CK told us (through SWAPA) that the programs don't help and they're not interested in paying pilots to stay home. So if ETO (and second rounds of EXTO or VSP) don't help and in fact taking them is considered a mark against the pilot group because it's just "paying pilots to stay home", then I'm not going to consider the company's health at all when deciding whether or not to apply for ETO in any particular month.
I do regret not taking ETO for December, but that's only because I haven't been able to be home for Christmas very often in the last several years.
CK wants 10% of my salary. Offering 50% of our pay for an ETO month is being held against us in negotiations. So that's simply not something we need to be considering in my opinion. Take ETO if you want the month off, awesome. But don't think you're helping the pilot group, Dean, or the company, because CK told us they don't want to pay pilots to stay home.
I do regret not taking ETO for December, but that's only because I haven't been able to be home for Christmas very often in the last several years.
CK wants 10% of my salary. Offering 50% of our pay for an ETO month is being held against us in negotiations. So that's simply not something we need to be considering in my opinion. Take ETO if you want the month off, awesome. But don't think you're helping the pilot group, Dean, or the company, because CK told us they don't want to pay pilots to stay home.
12-18-2020, 09:39 AM
#17
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2017
Posts: 659
And no the second bailout isn’t guaranteed but there’s lots of smoke, so hopefully it makes ETO in February moot
12-18-2020, 01:08 PM
#18
Line holder
Joined APC: Nov 2013
Position: On the bus,seat 0A
Posts: 3,332
The objective of EXTO, VSP and, to a lesser extent ETO (excepting those who took it to protect themselves or family members from infection) was to reduce headcount - essentially to match supply with demand.
The company has already decided, in the month of February for example, how much flying they intend to do. Now they'll take the number of crews they have and attempt to build contractually compliant trips and lines.
Long before Covid and the Max, February was the month you expected to see a green bar. This February that effect will be amplified, easily making the case for the company that even after EXTO, VSP, and some monthly ETO we remain overstaffed. The green bar is the measure of our inefficiency.
EXTO is a sunk cost. Something the company has already agreed to - extracontractually unfortunately - to address the manning problem. ETO is still variable.
My thought was that if enough of us took ETO to shrink the green bar, we could have proven to the company that these voluntary programs work, and there would be less of a need to furlough in order to match capacity and demand. Yes, there is still a cost. But since the program is again extracontractual and company sponsored, they're telegraphing their willingness to allow us to solve the problem voluntarily.
The green bar is the problem. Line guarantee was meant to protect us against inefficient schedules, not as an underemployment program.
In the end, it's irrelevant. Only 157 people took it in the month of February. Less than 2% of active pilots. (The 1221 represent about 13.5%) At the end of the day "Keep Dean" has to be more than a slogan on a bag tag or a lanyard. We have to be willing to do something. If it's not a concession, then it's a voluntary program. If we do nothing, we do a disservice to our own pilots and what little culture remains will fall.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
The company has already decided, in the month of February for example, how much flying they intend to do. Now they'll take the number of crews they have and attempt to build contractually compliant trips and lines.
Long before Covid and the Max, February was the month you expected to see a green bar. This February that effect will be amplified, easily making the case for the company that even after EXTO, VSP, and some monthly ETO we remain overstaffed. The green bar is the measure of our inefficiency.
EXTO is a sunk cost. Something the company has already agreed to - extracontractually unfortunately - to address the manning problem. ETO is still variable.
My thought was that if enough of us took ETO to shrink the green bar, we could have proven to the company that these voluntary programs work, and there would be less of a need to furlough in order to match capacity and demand. Yes, there is still a cost. But since the program is again extracontractual and company sponsored, they're telegraphing their willingness to allow us to solve the problem voluntarily.
The green bar is the problem. Line guarantee was meant to protect us against inefficient schedules, not as an underemployment program.
In the end, it's irrelevant. Only 157 people took it in the month of February. Less than 2% of active pilots. (The 1221 represent about 13.5%) At the end of the day "Keep Dean" has to be more than a slogan on a bag tag or a lanyard. We have to be willing to do something. If it's not a concession, then it's a voluntary program. If we do nothing, we do a disservice to our own pilots and what little culture remains will fall.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Yes, yes & yes.
I'm at NK, my wife is SWA. She has never been as disappointed in an airline as she is now (20+ years and 4 airlines). She just cashed out swag points and wishes she'd taken VSP. She was all in SWA before, not so much now. Absolutely atrocious how they put the shareholders before employees.
12-18-2020, 06:35 PM
#19
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2017
Position: 737 FO
Posts: 989
Yes, yes & yes.
I'm at NK, my wife is SWA. She has never been as disappointed in an airline as she is now (20+ years and 4 airlines). She just cashed out swag points and wishes she'd taken VSP. She was all in SWA before, not so much now. Absolutely atrocious how they put the shareholders before employees.
I'm at NK, my wife is SWA. She has never been as disappointed in an airline as she is now (20+ years and 4 airlines). She just cashed out swag points and wishes she'd taken VSP. She was all in SWA before, not so much now. Absolutely atrocious how they put the shareholders before employees.
Brushing up on that FedEx app.
I really wish I'd taken it.
12-18-2020, 09:09 PM
#20
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2018
Posts: 1,264
Yes, yes & yes.
I'm at NK, my wife is SWA. She has never been as disappointed in an airline as she is now (20+ years and 4 airlines). She just cashed out swag points and wishes she'd taken VSP. She was all in SWA before, not so much now. Absolutely atrocious how they put the shareholders before employees.
I'm at NK, my wife is SWA. She has never been as disappointed in an airline as she is now (20+ years and 4 airlines). She just cashed out swag points and wishes she'd taken VSP. She was all in SWA before, not so much now. Absolutely atrocious how they put the shareholders before employees.
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