SWA WARN letters to pilots
12-04-2020, 06:17 AM
#52
Rubber dogsh#t out of HKG
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: Senior Seat Cushion Tester Extraordinaire
Posts: 625
No way Biden does anything for airline pilots. In a Democrat controlled administration the fundamental belief is that the government must exert control. A democrat economy doesn't believe in supply and demand, commerce, or the rights of the worker. It believes in control. The real issue here are the fundamentals of the Railway Labor Act. The underlying principle is that is binds both parties to the negotiating process while insuring stability in air commerce, which is a cornerstone of both the US economy and our national defense policy (CRAF flying). Ever since 1926 it's been getting harder and harder to get released. Both sides can "run the act."
Biden doesn't know how to spell "economy." So, he needs anything and everything that produces revenue (tax dollars) to function. Anything that generates revenue directly and indirectly to the government will be kept alive, on life support if necessary so it can produce revenue to the IRS. Any threat of curtailing interstate commerce would threaten Biden's ability to generate tax revenue so he can then give it to the progressive squad and dole out free benefits to those that are too lazy to work.
Another words, you get the privilege of working under NMB mandated supervision while simultaneously funding socialized programs. Any gains you get, 4 to 7 years down the road will be given away to the liberals so they can fund more free stuff to the lazy among us. Congrats. Democrats win and pilots lose.
Airfare is 44.9% cheaper today since the Deregulation Act of 1978. Those reductions come right out of pilot salaries. Thanks Jimmy Carter! Another brilliant democrat.
A very very long time ago, democrats used to care about "workers." Airline pilots are not considered "workers." We are considered to be white collar professionals. The fact that we pay union dues does not impress Congress or any one particular political party. Congress isn't scared of pilots. They have nothing to fear.
If our pilot force was truly "nationally organized." We would have more clout and more bargaining power. But, then we'd simply be a bigger and more expensive "bureaucratic association" with unlimited budgets doing nonsense inside the beltway.
Biden doesn't know how to spell "economy." So, he needs anything and everything that produces revenue (tax dollars) to function. Anything that generates revenue directly and indirectly to the government will be kept alive, on life support if necessary so it can produce revenue to the IRS. Any threat of curtailing interstate commerce would threaten Biden's ability to generate tax revenue so he can then give it to the progressive squad and dole out free benefits to those that are too lazy to work.
Another words, you get the privilege of working under NMB mandated supervision while simultaneously funding socialized programs. Any gains you get, 4 to 7 years down the road will be given away to the liberals so they can fund more free stuff to the lazy among us. Congrats. Democrats win and pilots lose.
Airfare is 44.9% cheaper today since the Deregulation Act of 1978. Those reductions come right out of pilot salaries. Thanks Jimmy Carter! Another brilliant democrat.
A very very long time ago, democrats used to care about "workers." Airline pilots are not considered "workers." We are considered to be white collar professionals. The fact that we pay union dues does not impress Congress or any one particular political party. Congress isn't scared of pilots. They have nothing to fear.
If our pilot force was truly "nationally organized." We would have more clout and more bargaining power. But, then we'd simply be a bigger and more expensive "bureaucratic association" with unlimited budgets doing nonsense inside the beltway.
Never mind the hypocrisy of your statement about the supposed “those to lazy to work”
12-04-2020, 06:42 AM
#53
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2018
Posts: 1,264
No way Biden does anything for airline pilots. In a Democrat controlled administration the fundamental belief is that the government must exert control. A democrat economy doesn't believe in supply and demand, commerce, or the rights of the worker. It believes in control. The real issue here are the fundamentals of the Railway Labor Act. The underlying principle is that is binds both parties to the negotiating process while insuring stability in air commerce, which is a cornerstone of both the US economy and our national defense policy (CRAF flying). Ever since 1926 it's been getting harder and harder to get released. Both sides can "run the act."
Biden doesn't know how to spell "economy." So, he needs anything and everything that produces revenue (tax dollars) to function. Anything that generates revenue directly and indirectly to the government will be kept alive, on life support if necessary so it can produce revenue to the IRS. Any threat of curtailing interstate commerce would threaten Biden's ability to generate tax revenue so he can then give it to the progressive squad and dole out free benefits to those that are too lazy to work.
Another words, you get the privilege of working under NMB mandated supervision while simultaneously funding socialized programs. Any gains you get, 4 to 7 years down the road will be given away to the liberals so they can fund more free stuff to the lazy among us. Congrats. Democrats win and pilots lose.
Airfare is 44.9% cheaper today since the Deregulation Act of 1978. Those reductions come right out of pilot salaries. Thanks Jimmy Carter! Another brilliant democrat.
A very very long time ago, democrats used to care about "workers." Airline pilots are not considered "workers." We are considered to be white collar professionals. The fact that we pay union dues does not impress Congress or any one particular political party. Congress isn't scared of pilots. They have nothing to fear.
If our pilot force was truly "nationally organized." We would have more clout and more bargaining power. But, then we'd simply be a bigger and more expensive "bureaucratic association" with unlimited budgets doing nonsense inside the beltway.
Biden doesn't know how to spell "economy." So, he needs anything and everything that produces revenue (tax dollars) to function. Anything that generates revenue directly and indirectly to the government will be kept alive, on life support if necessary so it can produce revenue to the IRS. Any threat of curtailing interstate commerce would threaten Biden's ability to generate tax revenue so he can then give it to the progressive squad and dole out free benefits to those that are too lazy to work.
Another words, you get the privilege of working under NMB mandated supervision while simultaneously funding socialized programs. Any gains you get, 4 to 7 years down the road will be given away to the liberals so they can fund more free stuff to the lazy among us. Congrats. Democrats win and pilots lose.
Airfare is 44.9% cheaper today since the Deregulation Act of 1978. Those reductions come right out of pilot salaries. Thanks Jimmy Carter! Another brilliant democrat.
A very very long time ago, democrats used to care about "workers." Airline pilots are not considered "workers." We are considered to be white collar professionals. The fact that we pay union dues does not impress Congress or any one particular political party. Congress isn't scared of pilots. They have nothing to fear.
If our pilot force was truly "nationally organized." We would have more clout and more bargaining power. But, then we'd simply be a bigger and more expensive "bureaucratic association" with unlimited budgets doing nonsense inside the beltway.
Regardless of what you think of Biden’s position on airline pilots and labor in general, the fact remains that in order to generate leverage under the RLA, mediation must be entered into. That’s true regardless of who’s in office. There is little conceivable rationale for a labor group to delay entering into mediation. If a labor group never enters mediation there is zero chance of an impasse ever being declared. Without the threat of an impasse being declared accompanied by a release to self help, there is no threat to management posed by the book away phenomenon discussed by Livingood. In terms of creating leverage under the RLA, time spent in negotiations prior to mediation is mostly wasted time.
12-04-2020, 06:49 AM
#54
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2015
Posts: 833
...let's just ignore that Southwest wouldn't exist in it's current form without deregulation.
Last edited by Proximity; 12-04-2020 at 07:33 AM.
12-04-2020, 07:49 AM
#55
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 2,338
12-04-2020, 09:23 AM
#56
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2019
Posts: 1,538
Disagree with your take. Don’t want this to devolve into another absurd dissection of our impending descent into socialist doom when Biden takes office on Jan 20.
Regardless of what you think of Biden’s position on airline pilots and labor in general, the fact remains that in order to generate leverage under the RLA, mediation must be entered into. That’s true regardless of who’s in office. There is little conceivable rationale for a labor group to delay entering into mediation. If a labor group never enters mediation there is zero chance of an impasse ever being declared. Without the threat of an impasse being declared accompanied by a release to self help, there is no threat to management posed by the book away phenomenon discussed by Livingood. In terms of creating leverage under the RLA, time spent in negotiations prior to mediation is mostly wasted time.
Regardless of what you think of Biden’s position on airline pilots and labor in general, the fact remains that in order to generate leverage under the RLA, mediation must be entered into. That’s true regardless of who’s in office. There is little conceivable rationale for a labor group to delay entering into mediation. If a labor group never enters mediation there is zero chance of an impasse ever being declared. Without the threat of an impasse being declared accompanied by a release to self help, there is no threat to management posed by the book away phenomenon discussed by Livingood. In terms of creating leverage under the RLA, time spent in negotiations prior to mediation is mostly wasted time.
You don't need to worry about Biden's beliefs as he has all the symptoms of Parkinson's. Worry about Harris' beliefs.
12-04-2020, 09:27 AM
#57
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2020
Posts: 1,897
UAL guy here and former CAL pilot.
I have read everything that's going on at SWA. it would appear that GK wants to reward the shareholder at all costs.
As I read the SWA publicly released information it occurs to me that GK places his loyalty first to his shareholders, likely his institutional shareholders. He sorta forgot that it's the employees that who take care of the job, take care of the customer, and after management takes care of the employees, then the employees can reward management with great job performance metrics. It's those metrics that really - ultimately reward shareholders.
I have read everything that's going on at SWA. it would appear that GK wants to reward the shareholder at all costs.
As I read the SWA publicly released information it occurs to me that GK places his loyalty first to his shareholders, likely his institutional shareholders. He sorta forgot that it's the employees that who take care of the job, take care of the customer, and after management takes care of the employees, then the employees can reward management with great job performance metrics. It's those metrics that really - ultimately reward shareholders.
12-04-2020, 09:48 AM
#58
Gets Weekend Reserve
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,776
I mean if the CEO isn't pecuniarily responsible to the BOD and Shareholders.....then who the heck is? I'm part of labor as well, but just like in ANY corporation, labor can be a partner/tool/ or sunk cost for the corporation to make money, pay dividends, and build value. How you manage labor is a style/technique, but at the end of the day, the CEO has to be loyal to the shareholders first.
12-04-2020, 09:49 AM
#59
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2013
Position: 175 CA
Posts: 1,544
I hope there’s no downgrades (I’m part of the 1221 so I know the pain). My question to the universe, they said in the FAQ no downgrades in February...how does it make sense operations wise to be that lopsided? Last time I checked FOs make a lot less. Again not wishing that on anyone (in other words I’m calling BS on them following through with this)
12-04-2020, 10:01 AM
#60
Line Holder
Joined APC: Mar 2016
Posts: 29
I hope there’s no downgrades (I’m part of the 1221 so I know the pain). My question to the universe, they said in the FAQ no downgrades in February...how does it make sense operations wise to be that lopsided? Last time I checked FOs make a lot less. Again not wishing that on anyone (in other words I’m calling BS on them following through with this)
Just wait. In standard fashion the tail is wagging the dog. The folks at crew planning didn’t get advance notice of the issue because they would have probably leaked the information to the masses and it would loose its “wow” factor. In addition my furlough date is 1 April. They won’t downgrade anyone until March if this gets that far.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
