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Old 12-06-2020, 08:41 PM
  #141  
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Originally Posted by LUVisLost
Same with sick time. If your sick calls exceed 2 standard deviations outside your norm they will pursue action.
You could probably get away with sick, due to hypersensitivity over covid. All businesses have written policies of if in doubt, stay home.
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Old 12-07-2020, 02:04 AM
  #142  
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Originally Posted by Profane Kahuna
E

Do they send a SWAT team to the house and zip tie them? Drive them to airport and hold a gun to their head?

No , they call the 2 ex wife’s and the road wife and tell them how and why the money is running dry for them . Make the ex wife do the heavy lifting of taking the pilot to court and having the judge tell them they have to keep working like they use to
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Old 12-07-2020, 02:59 AM
  #143  
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Originally Posted by Profane Kahuna
Explain to me how exactly in your “experience with the federal judiciary” they force a pilot to work on their day off?

Do they send a SWAT team to the house and zip tie them? Drive them to airport and hold a gun to their head?
I totally agree with your sentiment that no company can force an employee to work on their day off. Unfortunately the reality is that they will simply sue SWAPA for violation of status quo and if the case falls the same as these cases haven fallen the last two decades, SWAPA will be assessed a sizable fine by the judge.

That’s the bull$7!t reality that we have with the RLA. The RLA needs to be changed but I don’t see that happening.
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Old 12-07-2020, 04:28 AM
  #144  
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Originally Posted by Profane Kahuna
Explain to me how exactly in your “experience with the federal judiciary” they force a pilot to work on their day off?

Do they send a SWAT team to the house and zip tie them? Drive them to airport and hold a gun to their head?

The full case can be read here:

https://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-11th-...t/1362939.html

A snippet from the case law:


This reduction in requests for overtime is causing harm to Delta and the traveling public.   Delta has lost millions of dollars in revenues, rerouting expenses, extra operating costs, and overnight hotel and meal vouchers.   Additionally, Delta has suffered loss in the form of good will and traffic that is immeasurable.   The public has suffered loss in time and money from the delays and cancellations which is also immeasurable.

In spite of these findings, the court refused to issue an injunction against ALPA and/or MEC. It based this refusal on the fact that “[n]either the Union leadership [of ALPA] nor the [MEC] supports this effort [by the pilots] and both have, in fact, counseled against it.”   While it is true that ALPA and the MEC “counseled against” the efforts of the pilots, it is equally clear that these union communiques were not effective in suppressing the pilots' no-overtime campaign.

The district court's error came in its decision that it would “not hold that a union has an affirmative duty to end or prevent the unilateral unlawful activity of its members.”   The RLA imposes such a duty on the union in section 152 First, and the district court should have enforced that duty.   It is possible, of course, that ALPA has in fact done all that it can do in directing the pilots to cease their no-overtime campaign.   We seriously doubt this is the case, however.   What seems to be true is that while ALPA has admonished its members at Delta's request, it has not made “every reasonable effort” as required by statute.  45 U.S.C. § 152 First.   ALPA is statutorily bound to do everything possible to “maintain” the CBA so that commerce is not in any way interrupted.   We are not satisfied that ALPA has fulfilled this duty.21  Therefore, the district court, on remand, should enjoin ALPA to take specific steps aimed at stopping the pilots' no-overtime campaign and resuming normal operations of Delta's operations, including its overtime scheduling.22

It is possible, although unlikely, that ALPA has lost control of its members and that the pilots are truly acting contrary to ALPA's wishes and directives.   If this proves to be the case (which would become evident if the district court's injunction against ALPA is ineffective at stopping the no-overtime campaign), then National Airlines, 416 F.2d 998, would apply.   In National Airlines, the union had lost control of its members (and conceded as much to the court) and the members were conducting “wildcat strikes”;  the union was admittedly powerless to prevent this.   In this circumstance, the airline came to the court seeking permission to terminate some of the employees if they failed to work under the terms of their CBA. (The airline approached the court because the RLA would not have permitted the airline's self-help without judicial intervention.)   In National Airlines, the former Fifth Circuit allowed the airline, faced with employees who were violating the CBA and a union that had lost control of its members, to take direct action against the employees.

If ALPA cannot control the pilots, some of whom are admittedly violating the CBA by advocating concerted action, then Delta may return to the district court for additional relief.   The district court would, at that point, join all appropriate parties as defendants (presumably sua sponte ) and enjoin them from engaging in continued activity in violation of the CBA, under penalty of court sanction or other adverse employment action.
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Old 12-07-2020, 05:41 AM
  #145  
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Originally Posted by RJSAviator76
The full case can be read here:

https://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-11th-...t/1362939.html

A snippet from the case law:
That’s all very nice.

Explain to me how exactly they force a pilot to work on their day off?

Do they send a SWAT team to the house and zip tie them? Drive them to airport and hold a gun to their head?
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Old 12-07-2020, 05:57 AM
  #146  
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Originally Posted by Profane Kahuna
That’s all very nice.

Explain to me how exactly they force a pilot to work on their day off?

Do they send a SWAT team to the house and zip tie them? Drive them to airport and hold a gun to their head?
Yes, belonging to a union is very nice like that, indeed.

1) You may get a rather large dues increase to cover SWAPA's fines.
2) If you ever made snarky remarks that the company could interpret as intimidating or threatening others about picking up OT, you may find yourself in an unemployment line, and that's after you've been personally named in their lawsuit against SWAPA.
3) If you do something that remotely falls outside of contract and status quo, you can find yourself in an unemployment line and also added individually to the lawsuit.

But fret not, no SWAT team coming to your house, and you're free from zip ties until the next recurrent, or your next LAS layover.
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Old 12-07-2020, 06:04 AM
  #147  
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Originally Posted by Profane Kahuna
That’s all very nice.

Explain to me how exactly they force a pilot to work on their day off?

Do they send a SWAT team to the house and zip tie them? Drive them to airport and hold a gun to their head?
You're missing the point. They can't make you work on your days off. But if a judge determines that a change to historical precedent (SWA pilots pick up lots of OT and suddenly don't) constitutes an illegal job action or self-help against the provisions of the RLA he/she could sanction the union even if the union didn't explicitly request this action by the pilots. It's theoretical but hardly out of the realm of possibility.

Originally Posted by WHACKMASTER
I totally agree with your sentiment that no company can force an employee to work on their day off. Unfortunately the reality is that they will simply sue SWAPA for violation of status quo and if the case falls the same as these cases haven fallen the last two decades, SWAPA will be assessed a sizable fine by the judge.

That’s the bull$7!t reality that we have with the RLA. The RLA needs to be changed but I don’t see that happening.
I don't mean to bring politics to this thread but we need to be conscious of the labor leanings of the candidates we elect. In 2020 there aren't many who have strong pro-labor policies but some are distinctly anti-labor. Consider how your candidate will appoint judges or SCOTUS justices when you vote.
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Old 12-07-2020, 08:04 AM
  #148  
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Anyone who thinks Gary has not declared total war on the labor groups is misleading themselves. FH advised and Gary pulled the trigger. For those not used to this type of relationship hang on cause it’s only going to get worse and not better. At a brand X I used to work at they hired private investigators to sit outside pilots homes that were calling in sick. They tracked write ups on planes per pilot. They measured the time of preflight for certain pilots that were running behind schedule. They had management impersonate pilots online and try to lead them into illegal job actions such as calling in sick. They would pursue legal action against Twitter trying to find out names of Twitter users that were bashing them online. Heck I still have the filing in my email archives. Trust no one from Dallas and only trust half of the line pilots. Lines will be drawn and reputations will be made and lost....

In a way it’s good that this happened, now you will find out who your friends really are.
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Old 12-07-2020, 09:37 AM
  #149  
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Surprised this is even a topic of discussion. You don’t pick up open time and pad your wallet while you have pilots on the street. While the TFP ninjas who can’t live on less than 150+ will do what they do, they aren’t the majority. It’s something you simply don’t do and never have a second thought about it. Let the lawyers do what the lawyers do and fight it out on the other side.
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Old 12-07-2020, 11:14 AM
  #150  
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Originally Posted by usmc-sgt
Surprised this is even a topic of discussion. You don’t pick up open time and pad your wallet while you have pilots on the street. While the TFP ninjas who can’t live on less than 150+ will do what they do, they aren’t the majority. It’s something you simply don’t do and never have a second thought about it. Let the lawyers do what the lawyers do and fight it out on the other side.
Exactly, thank you!
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