SWA WARN letters to pilots
12-05-2020, 09:10 PM
#111
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2017
Posts: 459
So based on anonymous forum they can gather court evidence against a pilot group?
For the record, I’m a flight sim junkie who follows these forums and posts as if I’m an airline employee with 22+ years of experience who if confronted with a flight sim furlough would not pick up a minute of flight sim open time.
For the record, I’m a flight sim junkie who follows these forums and posts as if I’m an airline employee with 22+ years of experience who if confronted with a flight sim furlough would not pick up a minute of flight sim open time.
12-05-2020, 09:39 PM
#112
Gets Everyday Off
Joined APC: Aug 2016
Position: Fully Retired
Posts: 7,000
12-05-2020, 09:42 PM
#113
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,156
I'm somewhat of a professional scheduling geek, having run the short term and long term scheduling shops for several years in the USAF. When the Spirit May schedule was released, I immediately saw that it was quite literally unflyable. It was deliberately inefficient, with every line having extended layovers and 1 or 2 leg days where there would usually be 2-3 leg days. It was UNFLYABLE. They literally did not have enough pilots to cover the schedule. Because of my extensive background in scheduling and annual flying hour program management, this was obvious within minutes of seeing the bid packet.
The judge took the company's "evidence" and ruled before the ALPA lawyer even arrived at the hearing. Read that again and let it sink in. The mountain of evidence against Spirit's claims were NEVER HEARD because the judge ruled before the ALPA lawyer showed up.
I was there. I saw it happen. It was a set-up job from the beginning. The riot at FLL was part of it. They scheduled 2 flights out of FLL and one of them never had a crew. NEVER. For a full month they knew damn well that flight was uncovered. But they waited until an hour prior to push to cancel it, blamed it on the crew, and told 140ish well behaved spirit pax that another flight (with a crew) an hour or two later had a handful of seats open so would they politely line up to see if they could get one of the handful of seats... Riot ensued. I was astonished that the airport and FAA did not sanction Spirit, except that FLL is Spirit's HQ so they got off freely without a word from the FAA or airport or city.
I was there. It was a setup. But don't ANYONE dream that it couldn't happen here. They're tracking each and every one of the posts in here (including this one) that says anything about any current event, and they'll just pile it in front of a dumbass judge who won't even wait to hear the other side of the story before he rules against the pilots and/or the union.
I quit Spirit over this. 2 weeks after they got their new contract with the largest payraise in the history of the RLA, I quit the easiest job I ever had. I used to think SWA was better, now I'm not sure. I do know that every hour of sick bank is a loan to the company, same with SWAG points. If it's taxable, it's compensation so it belongs in my checking account not SWA's accounts payable ledger as an interest free loan. And it's no secret they know how I feel either, I don't think my sick bank has hit 50 since I was hired.
Got my WARN letter. Updating my logbook, resume, and interview suit. FUPM.
12-05-2020, 11:29 PM
#114
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2010
Position: DOWNGRADE COMPLETE: Thanks Gary. Thanks SWAPA.
Posts: 6,831
the company absolutely can sue and will win. It has happened before. If they can show that the pilot group used to pick up x amount of flying and now its x-y they will convince a judge that they cannot do business unless the pilots hold to the norm. And the judge will rubber stamp it.
everyone should do what they want. I'm on ExTO so it's easier for me. All I'm saying is dont think they cant sue and win.
everyone should do what they want. I'm on ExTO so it's easier for me. All I'm saying is dont think they cant sue and win.
12-06-2020, 05:10 AM
#115
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2012
Posts: 2,030
i wrote to my reps and expressed my support for a 10% assessment to cover furloughee health care and financial support for the duration of the furlough.
Regardless of what else we do, that's the right thing. If the company doesn't want to take care of us, then we will take care of each other.
Sent from my iphone using tapatalk
Regardless of what else we do, that's the right thing. If the company doesn't want to take care of us, then we will take care of each other.
Sent from my iphone using tapatalk
12-06-2020, 05:43 AM
#117
Gets Weekend Reserve
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,796
I wrote to my reps and expressed my support for a 10% assessment to cover furloughee health care and financial support for the duration of the furlough.
Regardless of what else we do, that's the right thing. If the company doesn't want to take care of us, then we will take care of each other.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Regardless of what else we do, that's the right thing. If the company doesn't want to take care of us, then we will take care of each other.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Amen Eeyore! Ditto... I’ve been telling this to my reps by voice, text and email. And I don’t even think it’ll take 10% if it’s done SWAPA-wide even excluding ExTO’s.
12-06-2020, 06:18 AM
#118
Gets Weekend Reserve
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,796
Suppose we just simply stop picking up any OT. No request from the union, not even a silent campaign or verbal one... we just stop as individuals.
The company will still accuse SWAPA of illegal job action. The onus will be on SWAPA to prove it’s not. SWAPA will come out and urge us to “stop this illegal boycott and/or any silent campaign to stop or prevent people from picking up OT.” They will also say how this isn’t how we help furloughees, etc.
If it still goes on, SWAPA will still be a subject of company’s lawsuit and likely fined into oblivion.
SWAPA’s recourse may be to say that they simply lost control of the union, and that brings about its own warts. Here’s some legal precedent and how this gets addressed:
https://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-11th-...t/1362939.html
Also something a bit more recent:
https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...505-story.html
12-06-2020, 08:56 AM
#119
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2018
Position: MEM HSBY
Posts: 166
Yea.
I'm somewhat of a professional scheduling geek, having run the short term and long term scheduling shops for several years in the USAF. When the Spirit May schedule was released, I immediately saw that it was quite literally unflyable. It was deliberately inefficient, with every line having extended layovers and 1 or 2 leg days where there would usually be 2-3 leg days. It was UNFLYABLE. They literally did not have enough pilots to cover the schedule. Because of my extensive background in scheduling and annual flying hour program management, this was obvious within minutes of seeing the bid packet.
The judge took the company's "evidence" and ruled before the ALPA lawyer even arrived at the hearing. Read that again and let it sink in. The mountain of evidence against Spirit's claims were NEVER HEARD because the judge ruled before the ALPA lawyer showed up.
I was there. I saw it happen. It was a set-up job from the beginning. The riot at FLL was part of it. They scheduled 2 flights out of FLL and one of them never had a crew. NEVER. For a full month they knew damn well that flight was uncovered. But they waited until an hour prior to push to cancel it, blamed it on the crew, and told 140ish well behaved spirit pax that another flight (with a crew) an hour or two later had a handful of seats open so would they politely line up to see if they could get one of the handful of seats... Riot ensued. I was astonished that the airport and FAA did not sanction Spirit, except that FLL is Spirit's HQ so they got off freely without a word from the FAA or airport or city.
I was there. It was a setup. But don't ANYONE dream that it couldn't happen here. They're tracking each and every one of the posts in here (including this one) that says anything about any current event, and they'll just pile it in front of a dumbass judge who won't even wait to hear the other side of the story before he rules against the pilots and/or the union.
I quit Spirit over this. 2 weeks after they got their new contract with the largest payraise in the history of the RLA, I quit the easiest job I ever had. I used to think SWA was better, now I'm not sure. I do know that every hour of sick bank is a loan to the company, same with SWAG points. If it's taxable, it's compensation so it belongs in my checking account not SWA's accounts payable ledger as an interest free loan. And it's no secret they know how I feel either, I don't think my sick bank has hit 50 since I was hired.
Got my WARN letter. Updating my logbook, resume, and interview suit. FUPM.
I'm somewhat of a professional scheduling geek, having run the short term and long term scheduling shops for several years in the USAF. When the Spirit May schedule was released, I immediately saw that it was quite literally unflyable. It was deliberately inefficient, with every line having extended layovers and 1 or 2 leg days where there would usually be 2-3 leg days. It was UNFLYABLE. They literally did not have enough pilots to cover the schedule. Because of my extensive background in scheduling and annual flying hour program management, this was obvious within minutes of seeing the bid packet.
The judge took the company's "evidence" and ruled before the ALPA lawyer even arrived at the hearing. Read that again and let it sink in. The mountain of evidence against Spirit's claims were NEVER HEARD because the judge ruled before the ALPA lawyer showed up.
I was there. I saw it happen. It was a set-up job from the beginning. The riot at FLL was part of it. They scheduled 2 flights out of FLL and one of them never had a crew. NEVER. For a full month they knew damn well that flight was uncovered. But they waited until an hour prior to push to cancel it, blamed it on the crew, and told 140ish well behaved spirit pax that another flight (with a crew) an hour or two later had a handful of seats open so would they politely line up to see if they could get one of the handful of seats... Riot ensued. I was astonished that the airport and FAA did not sanction Spirit, except that FLL is Spirit's HQ so they got off freely without a word from the FAA or airport or city.
I was there. It was a setup. But don't ANYONE dream that it couldn't happen here. They're tracking each and every one of the posts in here (including this one) that says anything about any current event, and they'll just pile it in front of a dumbass judge who won't even wait to hear the other side of the story before he rules against the pilots and/or the union.
I quit Spirit over this. 2 weeks after they got their new contract with the largest payraise in the history of the RLA, I quit the easiest job I ever had. I used to think SWA was better, now I'm not sure. I do know that every hour of sick bank is a loan to the company, same with SWAG points. If it's taxable, it's compensation so it belongs in my checking account not SWA's accounts payable ledger as an interest free loan. And it's no secret they know how I feel either, I don't think my sick bank has hit 50 since I was hired.
Got my WARN letter. Updating my logbook, resume, and interview suit. FUPM.
12-06-2020, 08:57 AM
#120
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2015
Posts: 1,189
Suppose we just simply stop picking up any OT. No request from the union, not even a silent campaign or verbal one... we just stop as individuals.
The company will still accuse SWAPA of illegal job action. The onus will be on SWAPA to prove it’s not. SWAPA will come out and urge us to “stop this illegal boycott and/or any silent campaign to stop or prevent people from picking up OT.” They will also say how this isn’t how we help furloughees, etc.
If it still goes on, SWAPA will still be a subject of company’s lawsuit and likely fined into oblivion.
SWAPA’s recourse may be to say that they simply lost control of the union, and that brings about its own warts. Here’s some legal precedent and how this gets addressed:
https://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-11th-...t/1362939.html
Also something a bit more recent:
https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...505-story.html
The company will still accuse SWAPA of illegal job action. The onus will be on SWAPA to prove it’s not. SWAPA will come out and urge us to “stop this illegal boycott and/or any silent campaign to stop or prevent people from picking up OT.” They will also say how this isn’t how we help furloughees, etc.
If it still goes on, SWAPA will still be a subject of company’s lawsuit and likely fined into oblivion.
SWAPA’s recourse may be to say that they simply lost control of the union, and that brings about its own warts. Here’s some legal precedent and how this gets addressed:
https://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-11th-...t/1362939.html
Also something a bit more recent:
https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...505-story.html
I still don’t see how a Judge can order a pilot to work on their day off.
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