barabek

Good for you for your skills. I don't have those, and honestly I don't care. I guess I value time off more than money, we all have different priorities. And that's ok. I don't agree, however, with the rest of your post. SWAPA has nothing to do with picking up open time. It's our choice. Also, suggesting we pay furloughees their guarantee plus medical, while most of us work guarantee, I wanna be furloughed. Or are you suggesting we should all pick up extra to cover expenses to fund guys sitting on furlough? Sorry, I'm not in.

Peacock

Agreed. I’m all for helping guys if they get furloughed and I just barely missed the zone for warn notices. But if it’s full pay and benefits we’re talking about, I’d volunteer to come of ExTO and take furlough pay on top of guarantee

at6d

If a furlough happens I will not pick up open time, period.

Zman81

[QUOTE=Lewbronski;3167007]What you’re saying might be true. I personally don’t know anyone who pulled in that much money. I’ve heard this sort of thing since I’ve been at SWA. Again, I don’t doubt there are people who’ve been able to make that happen. I just don’t think it’s anywhere near as easy to make happen as some people would like everyone to believe. It seems like there’s an ego element involved with the people who like to tell others about how they made $500k or $600k or $700k last year. It allows them to feel smarter and better. What they don’t tell you is how many days they were out flying and/or on the hook, and how many hours a day they spend on the computer. It’s cool that they make a lot of money. It’s just kinda disingenuous to suggest that to do so is like “shooting fish in a barrel”.

I live in base and am very senior. It has never been like “shooting fish in a barrel” for me to obtain a high TFP total in a month. I have to either spend a lot of time on the computer and/or get lucky. No matter what, it takes a lot of days at work to run up a high TFP total.

And since they began running up the pilot to aircraft ratio, it has become more and more difficult to score premium trips making it that much more difficult to make

RJSAviator76

To each their own.

This place is polar opposite to what I've had before - everyone made only guarantee, no open time ever, sick calls are exclusively covered by reserves only, A-plan, B-plan, 401k, outstanding STD/LTD coverage. One of the downsides was that furloughs were pretty normal. None of this is normal ops here. Yes, here, it's our choice to pick up open time. Our entire compensation structure is set up along those lines - from pay to retirement to profit sharing. It certainly isn't set up for line flying given what comparison both company and SWAPA have been using to calculate our pay in comparison to our peers. And our individual behavior varies substantially, some like to fly 88 TFP. Others pick up more. Some may be paying alimony and child support, others have kids in college, some are paying off their homes, others are late in the game with retirement and need to squirrel as much away. Point being, BECAUSE our contract has been structured with this type of flexibility for everyone to make their own bed and bear fruits of their labor, shouldn't we explore the ways to take care of our own now that furloughs are a credible threat or should we do the typical airline pilot profession thing of "aw shucks, furloughee... sucks to be you"? I think we can do better, particularly given how our contract is structured. And no, it doesn't have to be full guarantee, but enough to ensure they and their families are taken care of.

Do you trust the company to honor their word? I don't. Especially after RM rationalized the meaning of "etc." to justify the company's abuse of IROPS. Do I believe Gary that he won't furlough if we give them 10%? Do I trust them with any force majeure language? Hell no. But the company is taking 1221 of our brothers and sisters hostage to drive a point. I'd like us to make a point right back at them, particularly since we started Section 6 prior to this pandemic.

I would much rather protect our contract, our pay rates, our retirement contributions, look after our own, and send an unmistakeable message to GK, RM, middle management, shareholders and other employee groups.

This isn't gonna last forever. And should we even furlough, and I truly doubt that we will, think of the message we are sending to everyone involved: from GK about his leadership (remember the vote of no-confidence?), to shareholders (why would pilots refuse 10% pay cut to "save the airline" but instead give that equivalent to the union to care for their furloughees), to our new pilots (hostages), to future Southwest pilots, and then armed with that, going into next Section 6.

To me, taking care of furloughees is an investment in the future. You may not see it that way. I do.

barabek

I can pledge the same! It will not have anything to do with the union. The management can't blame individuals that they don't wanna work on days off. It's quite simple, all it requires is unity. (I know, that's the hard part.) They'll run out of the reserves very soon, start JAing people left and right. Soon they will realize they need to start recalling ExTOs, then the furloughs. Especially if the vaccine works and people start traveling again in the spring, the furloughs would be very short lived. That's provided they'll furlough in the first place. I still believe they won't for various reasons people mentioned on this forum before.

Grumpyaviator

If I actually get furloughed I’d be happy just having cobra covered. Our expenses are low and I already have cjo’s at backup jobs that will meet our needs.

dash8driver

Won’t have to, got my email on my anniversary date. Maybe I should return the card so they can reuse it again next year and save on printing costs.

hoover

the company absolutely can sue and will win. It has happened before. If they can show that the pilot group used to pick up x amount of flying and now its x-y they will convince a judge that they cannot do business unless the pilots hold to the norm. And the judge will rubber stamp it.
everyone should do what they want. I'm on ExTO so it's easier for me. All I'm saying is dont think they cant sue and win.

Lewbronski

As much as I’d like to disagree with you, this is the unfortunate truth. Company management and their FordHarrison attorneys monitor APC.

Paranoid? No.

The 2017 restraining order against Spirit ALPA was granted in part due to the evidence contained in Spirit management’s pleadings that contained pages of quotes from pilots on APC saying things similar to what guys have already said on this thread.

Do not talk about what you will or won’t do if a furlough occurs. The law prevents any change to status quo behavior. Do not debate what a change to status quo means to you on this thread or on any kind of forum that is accessible to anyone that might hand over to management what you or others are saying about what a change to status quo looks like to you.