Jon's Email
10-06-2020, 06:17 PM
#61
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2018
Posts: 1,264
A couple of additional things to consider when it comes to the furlough threat.
Every one of us comes into the airline industry knowing its nature. It's a boom and bust industry. The junior have always been at risk of furlough. It completely sucks but it's the nature of the best. If job security was our number one value in a profession, we would have all gone and worked for the government or become a software engineer.
Every single person currently on the seniority list was given the chance, post-covid, with the realistic threat of furloughs in the offing, to take VSP. VSP provided those who took it with a five-year runway of cash to do one or more of a number of things: begin retirement, weather our industry's crisis, find another job, retrain into another career, get additional education and qualifications, or start/focus on a business. Those who didn't take VSP and are in the furlough bubble rolled the dice. Maybe that was the wisest thing to do. But it's worth noting that every single furloughee, if it comes to that, had the opportunity to take VSP. They weren't left out in the cold.
No concessions.
Every one of us comes into the airline industry knowing its nature. It's a boom and bust industry. The junior have always been at risk of furlough. It completely sucks but it's the nature of the best. If job security was our number one value in a profession, we would have all gone and worked for the government or become a software engineer.
Every single person currently on the seniority list was given the chance, post-covid, with the realistic threat of furloughs in the offing, to take VSP. VSP provided those who took it with a five-year runway of cash to do one or more of a number of things: begin retirement, weather our industry's crisis, find another job, retrain into another career, get additional education and qualifications, or start/focus on a business. Those who didn't take VSP and are in the furlough bubble rolled the dice. Maybe that was the wisest thing to do. But it's worth noting that every single furloughee, if it comes to that, had the opportunity to take VSP. They weren't left out in the cold.
No concessions.
10-06-2020, 07:02 PM
#62
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2017
Posts: 231
A couple of additional things to consider when it comes to the furlough threat.
Every one of us comes into the airline industry knowing its nature. It's a boom and bust industry. The junior have always been at risk of furlough. It completely sucks but it's the nature of the best. If job security was our number one value in a profession, we would have all gone and worked for the government or become a software engineer.
Every single person currently on the seniority list was given the chance, post-covid, with the realistic threat of furloughs in the offing, to take VSP. VSP provided those who took it with a five-year runway of cash to do one or more of a number of things: begin retirement, weather our industry's crisis, find another job, retrain into another career, get additional education and qualifications, or start/focus on a business. Those who didn't take VSP and are in the furlough bubble rolled the dice. Maybe that was the wisest thing to do. But it's worth noting that every single furloughee, if it comes to that, had the opportunity to take VSP. They weren't left out in the cold.
No concessions.
Every one of us comes into the airline industry knowing its nature. It's a boom and bust industry. The junior have always been at risk of furlough. It completely sucks but it's the nature of the best. If job security was our number one value in a profession, we would have all gone and worked for the government or become a software engineer.
Every single person currently on the seniority list was given the chance, post-covid, with the realistic threat of furloughs in the offing, to take VSP. VSP provided those who took it with a five-year runway of cash to do one or more of a number of things: begin retirement, weather our industry's crisis, find another job, retrain into another career, get additional education and qualifications, or start/focus on a business. Those who didn't take VSP and are in the furlough bubble rolled the dice. Maybe that was the wisest thing to do. But it's worth noting that every single furloughee, if it comes to that, had the opportunity to take VSP. They weren't left out in the cold.
No concessions.
10-06-2020, 07:07 PM
#63
Furloughed Again?!
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Aug 2007
Position: Boeing 737
Posts: 4,804
Exactly, because it was a gamble.
It's the difference between, "you might get furloughed, you might not. Want VFP?"
or
"You ARE getting furloughed. Do you want to take the furlough for VFP?"
I think the second would have yielded more takers in that seniority bracket
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
It's the difference between, "you might get furloughed, you might not. Want VFP?"
or
"You ARE getting furloughed. Do you want to take the furlough for VFP?"
I think the second would have yielded more takers in that seniority bracket
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
10-06-2020, 07:17 PM
#64
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2017
Position: CRJ9 CA
Posts: 4,083
So let me understand correctly, GK is giving up his entire paycheck till the end of 2021. All management and non-contract employees are taking 30% pay cut with automatic snap back on January 1st 2022. You, however, with your MAGA family, prefer an "unemployment line" rather then a temporary concession? I know the MAGA crowd is not exactly famous for intelligence, but what makes you believe you are special and should be excluded from a team sacrifice in an attempt to save the company and our future?
10-07-2020, 08:14 AM
#65
Line Holder
Joined APC: Oct 2019
Posts: 63
Amen brother. Love the attitude. I sometimes wonder how the junior pilots feel at United. Are they proud of their yes vote to collect their meager paycheck? The only positive about their LOA was that they keep the gains plus restored pay in the event of pilot payroll support being signed. You willing to gamble on that? I’ve heard the sentiments about guys with families and bills or pay, but there are a lot of talented individuals in this industry who will do what it takes to earn a wage an provide for their families. I am deep into the furlough risk category. FPTTLD
10-07-2020, 08:52 AM
#66
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,750
As someone whose life and career were majorly affected by a furlough from a large European airline in 2003, I wish my airline and my representatives had been as creative and flexible as my current employer and representatives. The devil is ALWAYS in the details and language. Had they been as creative and flexible I’d probably be a widebody captain right now, as my contemporaries are. That door closed for me when I left Europe. It wouldn’t have had to with more creative thinking. Creative doesn’t have to be the same as caving to concessions. It is more about defining common ground and figuring how how to best serve the most people. Sometimes, yes, that can require compromise.
As it is, I spent 13 years in RJ purgatory before landing at SWA in early 2017 as a 50-year old new hire. Very, very happy to be here (and enjoying my ExTO in Florida at the moment!) and hoping for the best. I think we need to avoid a few things.
1. Playing our hand on a public forum.
2. Using divisive rhetoric against our own pilot group.
3. Speaking in absolutes. The world, including ours, doesn’t exist in just black and white. There are a million shades of gray.
Let’s see where we are before we end up painting ourselves into a corner.
For the record, I’m also opposed to concessions. But I’m also always willing to be creative. Not the same thing.
As it is, I spent 13 years in RJ purgatory before landing at SWA in early 2017 as a 50-year old new hire. Very, very happy to be here (and enjoying my ExTO in Florida at the moment!) and hoping for the best. I think we need to avoid a few things.
1. Playing our hand on a public forum.
2. Using divisive rhetoric against our own pilot group.
3. Speaking in absolutes. The world, including ours, doesn’t exist in just black and white. There are a million shades of gray.
Let’s see where we are before we end up painting ourselves into a corner.
For the record, I’m also opposed to concessions. But I’m also always willing to be creative. Not the same thing.
10-07-2020, 10:37 AM
#68
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2013
Posts: 548
Amen brother. Love the attitude. I sometimes wonder how the junior pilots feel at United. Are they proud of their yes vote to collect their meager paycheck? The only positive about their LOA was that they keep the gains plus restored pay in the event of pilot payroll support being signed. You willing to gamble on that? I’ve heard the sentiments about guys with families and bills or pay, but there are a lot of talented individuals in this industry who will do what it takes to earn a wage an provide for their families. I am deep into the furlough risk category. FPTTLD
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10-07-2020, 11:51 AM
#69
At your mom's house
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: cpt 737
Posts: 2,798
The company had the ability to take a loan from the Gov that would have more than given us enough money to last the yrs it may take. On top of the 2 yrs of cash they have.
they decided not to. Instead they want us to pay for keeping the company's cash. They had the choice of paying interest and not giving themselves bonuses or take money from the employees or their jobs.
yeah they care a lot about us.
they decided not to. Instead they want us to pay for keeping the company's cash. They had the choice of paying interest and not giving themselves bonuses or take money from the employees or their jobs.
yeah they care a lot about us.
10-07-2020, 12:45 PM
#70
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2013
Posts: 3,671
As someone whose life and career were majorly affected by a furlough from a large European airline in 2003, I wish my airline and my representatives had been as creative and flexible as my current employer and representatives. The devil is ALWAYS in the details and language. Had they been as creative and flexible I’d probably be a widebody captain right now, as my contemporaries are. That door closed for me when I left Europe. It wouldn’t have had to with more creative thinking. Creative doesn’t have to be the same as caving to concessions. It is more about defining common ground and figuring how how to best serve the most people. Sometimes, yes, that can require compromise.
As it is, I spent 13 years in RJ purgatory before landing at SWA in early 2017 as a 50-year old new hire. Very, very happy to be here (and enjoying my ExTO in Florida at the moment!) and hoping for the best. I think we need to avoid a few things.
1. Playing our hand on a public forum.
2. Using divisive rhetoric against our own pilot group.
3. Speaking in absolutes. The world, including ours, doesn’t exist in just black and white. There are a million shades of gray.
Let’s see where we are before we end up painting ourselves into a corner.
For the record, I’m also opposed to concessions. But I’m also always willing to be creative. Not the same thing.
As it is, I spent 13 years in RJ purgatory before landing at SWA in early 2017 as a 50-year old new hire. Very, very happy to be here (and enjoying my ExTO in Florida at the moment!) and hoping for the best. I think we need to avoid a few things.
1. Playing our hand on a public forum.
2. Using divisive rhetoric against our own pilot group.
3. Speaking in absolutes. The world, including ours, doesn’t exist in just black and white. There are a million shades of gray.
Let’s see where we are before we end up painting ourselves into a corner.
For the record, I’m also opposed to concessions. But I’m also always willing to be creative. Not the same thing.
Amen. I am not for rolling over, but I am for smart, out of the box thinking that is going to enrich both sides in the end. It's give and take, and we have given plenty already in the form of a conscious decision to overman the pilot group by middle management.
I do not want to see anyone on the street and I do not want to see us giving the company a deal where we are exploited for an outsized chunk of the pie. They already started shrinking our piece a couple of years ago and took the cherry and the whipped cream when they continued hiring into 2020 with no max.
I recognize that it takes a village to run a low cost airline, but our house has already made a pretty big offering. If we are forced to give more, I want to see how, in the end, I am going to be enriched by my sacrifice.
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