Junior Base?
07-29-2022, 06:41 AM
#241
7.27%
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: Boeing
Posts: 543
scenario 1
You place PHX as your top choice on your vacancy bid. With the other ETOPS bases as your last choices. There's a good chance you won't be able to hold PHX first month after IOE, but you would be assigned to OAK or LAX or LAS-E. In this case the 6 month seat lock associated with ETOPS tng wouldn't apply to you. So you'd get ETOPS trained, but then after a month or 3 or 6 have the seniority to sneak into PHX. Then you'd be a PHX FO that's ETOPS qualified, not have the seat lock, and be able to do exactly what your wanting in regards to picking up additional ETOPS trips over and above (to pile on some extra 2nd year pay) out of LAX, OAK, and LAS-E.
I'd keep an eye on where new hires are going, and your Seniority standing in that new hire bid (By age in your specific class), and the number of vacancies in that specific bid closely to see if this scenario is going to play out. If/when that time comes, there's plenty of fellas on here, and with our SWAPA union SRC (Schedule Research Committee) that will help you decide a good plan of attack on this.
Definitely put this thread in your crosscheck and scan, lots of first year GOLD in here.
Newbies... work smarter, not harder
You place PHX as your top choice on your vacancy bid. With the other ETOPS bases as your last choices. There's a good chance you won't be able to hold PHX first month after IOE, but you would be assigned to OAK or LAX or LAS-E. In this case the 6 month seat lock associated with ETOPS tng wouldn't apply to you. So you'd get ETOPS trained, but then after a month or 3 or 6 have the seniority to sneak into PHX. Then you'd be a PHX FO that's ETOPS qualified, not have the seat lock, and be able to do exactly what your wanting in regards to picking up additional ETOPS trips over and above (to pile on some extra 2nd year pay) out of LAX, OAK, and LAS-E.
I'd keep an eye on where new hires are going, and your Seniority standing in that new hire bid (By age in your specific class), and the number of vacancies in that specific bid closely to see if this scenario is going to play out. If/when that time comes, there's plenty of fellas on here, and with our SWAPA union SRC (Schedule Research Committee) that will help you decide a good plan of attack on this.
Definitely put this thread in your crosscheck and scan, lots of first year GOLD in here.
Newbies... work smarter, not harder
So, do you have to put all domiciles on your bid in order of desire, like a traditional standing bid or just the ones you want and would take otherwise? If I put PHX at top and LAS/LAX/OAK/DEN next and not the rest on my list, am I locked in to those for 6 month, or do I have to put them at the bottom of all the domiciles to not get locked in?
ETOPS is not a do or die for me, after 15 years of flying Int’l, I really prefer domestic anyway, but thought it would be good to have those options living in PHX. My number 1 priority is not to commute, having not had to since 2007.
07-29-2022, 07:02 AM
#242
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: American Airlines Brake Pad Replacement Technician
Posts: 476
Thanks for the knowledge and advice! I have read most of that thread, but plan to review frequently before I finish training; which is starting soon.
So, do you have to put all domiciles on your bid in order of desire, like a traditional standing bid or just the ones you want and would take otherwise? If I put PHX at top and LAS/LAX/OAK/DEN next and not the rest on my list, am I locked in to those for 6 month, or do I have to put them at the bottom of all the domiciles to not get locked in?
ETOPS is not a do or die for me, after 15 years of flying Int’l, I really prefer domestic anyway, but thought it would be good to have those options living in PHX. My number 1 priority is not to commute, having not had to since 2007.
So, do you have to put all domiciles on your bid in order of desire, like a traditional standing bid or just the ones you want and would take otherwise? If I put PHX at top and LAS/LAX/OAK/DEN next and not the rest on my list, am I locked in to those for 6 month, or do I have to put them at the bottom of all the domiciles to not get locked in?
ETOPS is not a do or die for me, after 15 years of flying Int’l, I really prefer domestic anyway, but thought it would be good to have those options living in PHX. My number 1 priority is not to commute, having not had to since 2007.
IN order to NOT incur the seat lock, you'll need to have the ETOPS bases as your last choices, AND all other bases above them (to include contingencies that will equal 100%),
Don't be afraid to contact our SRC to hear right from the horses mouth. 1% of OUR compensation is pulled just for this, that's what they do and are there for. Definitely good to ask questions here, just encouraging use of the SWAPA resources, especially as a newer hire, there's lots of misinformation on the line, and keep in mind it's like been a decade or two (or three !) since the guy your flying with has been a new hire, so the answers you get may not have aged well for your situation on that specific topic.
07-29-2022, 07:02 AM
#243
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2013
Posts: 3,672
One day, they are going to realize that the training lock has become worthless and are going to modify the program.
Until then, yes, to avoid a lock, you basically have to be forced into an ETOPS bid group. That means you have to have the three bid groups on the bottom of your bid list.
If it were me, I would just bid into PHX asap. It's only a matter of time before they have an ETOPS BG there.
Until then, yes, to avoid a lock, you basically have to be forced into an ETOPS bid group. That means you have to have the three bid groups on the bottom of your bid list.
If it were me, I would just bid into PHX asap. It's only a matter of time before they have an ETOPS BG there.
07-29-2022, 08:21 AM
#245
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2013
Posts: 3,672
Junior Base?
It's just the seat lock.
6 months of being locked into ETOPS is a huge deal for some who don't live in the Pacific time zone.
LAS is junior to LAS-E. It is also shrinking, so it's only a matter of time before LAS is pure etops.
07-29-2022, 08:23 AM
#246
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: American Airlines Brake Pad Replacement Technician
Posts: 476
One person's trash another's treasure. Long legs, short legs, high timers, qol'ers, in domicile, commuters, family fellas, empty nesters, overnights & hotels, etc....it all adds up to why it gets spread around the seniority list.
07-29-2022, 10:00 AM
#248
Furloughed Again?!
Joined APC: Aug 2007
Position: Boeing 737
Posts: 4,804
Apparently if they fail to ETOPS qualify you for 90 days, the ETOPS lock is lifted. Just happened to a new Captain I know.
It's a gamble but if they're getting out ahead of their skis at the training center the ETOPS lock may be lifted early.
It's a gamble but if they're getting out ahead of their skis at the training center the ETOPS lock may be lifted early.
07-29-2022, 10:49 AM
#249
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2021
Posts: 115
I think they’re absolutely slow playing the ETOPS training hoping you’ll transfer out before it actually gets done. I just flew with an ETOPS CKAM that said the scheduling has shifted 180* lately. Zero route quals for him in the last two months.
07-29-2022, 10:59 AM
#250
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2013
Posts: 3,672
Right. The lock made sense when etops flying was ramping up. Now it makes zero sense. If you are in an ETOPS base or have been awarded one in your CQ month, you should do the training in conjunction with CQ and then not be eligible for flying prior to route check. No lock. The company is tripping over their own shoe laces trying to manage training new hires and upgrades right now. Why make it harder than it has to be?
