wndriver

I'm not worried about how they will do during training. Who cares about that? Heck, I could have passed the initial training at 1500 hours myself, 23 years ago. How will they do on line? That's not going to be good. At least, it's not going to be good for the Captains. Nothing against them new guys. 1700 hours, no turbine time, is just not reasonable.

e6bpilot

Sorry, but there is simply no substitute for experience flying big airplanes with large crews in and out of complex situations. 60-80 hours in the sim may help them pass a checkride, but I firmly believe they are being passed on to the line to do most of their learning, which is a great disservice to our company and our customers.
Nobody should skip a step because they are a sharp flight instructor. I don't get paid enough to be a full time instructor on the line.

RJSAviator76

I hate to say it, but this is coming to every airline. Wasn't this also the case in 2006-2007 when we'd literally have someone with a wet commercial multi ticket flying in the right seat of a CRJ900? I get it... it shouldn't be happening at a major airline level, but it is, and the question is how do we deal with this going forward...

As far as I'm concerned, on the probie forms, I'm dead honest. I don't sugarcoat and pass the buck. If a new hire scares you or is clearly struggling, call your chief. You're not getting them in trouble. They'll arrange it so the newbie gets more training either by getting paired up with a check airman or maybe sent back for more sims. Look at it this way, you'll get these newbies the help they need, and you'll be protecting our livelihoods. Don't feel bad or shy about it, or pass the buck onto another captain. Sack up and do the right thing for everyone.

WHACKMASTER

In theory that’s the way it’s supposed to work, however that hasn’t been my experience. Just recently I flew with a NH who should not of been signed off of IOE.

The captain that flew with him before me called me before my trip to warn me to watch out because below 500’ things got hairy.

Sure enough, this guy (who was a great guy….or a good $h!t as the AF crowd would say) was simply not ready to be released to the line. I got to be a part of two of the worst landings in a 737 that I’ve ever witnessed and it was all in one day. UGLY.

I spoke to the CPs who asked me to fill out the Probationary FO report and to be brutally honest. The captain that flew with him before and called me to give me a heads up supposedly filled one out too.

What happened? Nothing. The NH in question just finished a 3-day with three different captains, none of which were check airman. Bu**$h!t!!!

RJSAviator76

That sucks! But then again, no telling on how they're gonna handle it, but as long as we provide accurate and brutally honest feedback via probationary FO reports, then it's on them. Also, you can fill out the form on your EFB as well...

Smooth at FL450

unless you turned in the form yourself, there’s no assurance the FO turned it in.

ZapBrannigan

You can fill them out on Comply. I usually do it on the last day of the trip, let them read what I wrote, and then submit electronically. Not trying to hide anything but want to make sure the form is submitted. I don't think I've ever ranked any section below a "3" - I don't want them to be penalized but at the same time if you believe that 4s indicated a fully qualified FO who can do the job with little or no supervision, than any guidance you need to offer indicates a gap between expected performance and actual performance, or something less than 4.

Don't want to see anyone disciplined or god forbid terminated but at the same time if there are pilots who are in need of additional training or evaluation, I want them to get the help they need.

When we brief one another on day one and say, "I make mistakes, so if you see something that doesn't look right, please let me know." that shouldn't just be lip service, and critique goes both ways. As a group we should be able
to self police and be demanding of perfection without the need to walk into the chief pilots office.

Also Pro Standards and GB in SWAPA training would be good resources to try and correct deficiencies without immediately getting the CP office involved and putting a probationary pilot in jeopardy.

Proximity

If the FO is truly "dangerous", then refuse them like an airplane with no APU in the summer. No line Capitan should accept an FO who lands dangerously, or won't be in the flightdeck without the Capitan, check pilots/LEADs need to sort these issues out.

To just fly and complain later you are tacitly accepting poor performance. We need to stop being so "mission focused" and make the right calls when required.

You are doing the FO and the airline as a whole a favor by doing this.

WHACKMASTER

It was filled out on my iPad after the CP asked me to fill it out and to be very specific on where the deficiencies were, so they definitely got it.

Smooth at FL450

good to know. The electronic form is new since I was a probie