Well according to APC, XO Jet has about 180 pilots, envoy has 2,500, and skywest has 5,000. I have nothing at all against XO jet, but if I was going to be stuck somewhere for the long haul and have to weather out the next economic downturn, I'd rather have hundreds or thousands of pilots under me, not dozens.

But my point was not to criticize Swift or XO, it was to question how many pilots will be willing to go to these carriers through this 225 program when they otherwise wouldn't have, with no guarantee of even getting an interview at SWA.

What's your definition of a "lesser contract"? Lesser than what? What is sub-par? What is your yardstick for par?

Management is a master at sowing confusion and disagreement on those issues. For example, some people would say our peer group airlines are DL, AA, UA. Others wouldn't necessarily agree.

Some would say we should include FedEx and UPS. Some wouldn't.

Then, some would say we should compare career compensation values, including widebody progression at those airlines with a premium for us tacked on because we are (have been) more productive.

Others would completely disagree with that because when you came to SWA, you knew you were coming to a narrowbody airline. To base our asks on widebody career compensation levels would risk bankrupting the corporation.

Still others would say you can't really compare SWA to any other airlines unless you want to agree to take PBS.

Some would say our "flexibility" is worth so much more than whatever marginal advantage other airlines have over us in pay or benefits, so you can't really compare.

And then there are those that say their W-2 at the end of the year is 45% bigger than their buddy's W-2 at at DL, UA, AA, F9, NK, AS, ETC and that's really what matters (ignoring block hours flown and/or days sitting reserve).

So what is lesser? What is subpar? And what percentage of the pilot group agrees with you?

Dude, management is set up very well for 2020.

Yup, SWA only hires desperate people. On the other hand, other airlines only look for people who are happy where they are and then magically convince them to leave. Everyone who goes to other majors had perfect situations at their regional/corporate/military job but left anyway.

Even with the announcement via Southwest, here at Swift there has been no details on the requirements, how even people on property are eligible for it. Still very vague on the info. Sounds great on paper but no guidance yet.

I’ve not heard of any mechanism for current employees of the partner companies to jump into the program. Gotta apply the old fashioned way.

Sounds like it to me

Tech debt. You’ll understand once you flow.

Why I came to SWA
 

Originally Posted by FleetSnarl View Post
People smarter than me have pointed out that SWA specializes in "desperation hiring". That is, they hire people who will subsequently feel a debt of gratitude toward SWA for rescuing them from whatever not-so-great circumstance: they were furloughed, they were at a sh***y regional, they were at a cr***y cargo or foreign carrier, they were military and sick of career worries and TDY's. The ab initio program is simply a version of that. They take a "zero" and over the course of a few years full of marination in SWA culture (assigned a pilot mentor, jumpseat rides, regular visits to DAL), they become a "hero" SWA pilot.


I’m not saying this doesn’t happen, but it’s absolutely ridiculous to insinuate that it doesn’t happen at the UAL, AA,or DAL. Why would someone not be grateful they get picked by any of these places including SWA, if that has been a longtime desire to do so? I know many people that work for SWA, and the others, who are very happy. Yes no place is perfect but they do enjoy working here. No, they didn’t get rescued either. I came from a gig I was happy at but it wasn’t my long term goal. Some of the others came from good 91, 91K, and 135 gigs that were far from “I need to be rescued” type of scenarios. Some people come from regionals, and are miserable, others are content at regionals as senior pilots but it’s not what they want to do in end game. Just because you have a negative look on the company does not mean that people coming in are also “settling”. Now that being said, I do agree it’s obvious management will use this staffing in negotiation...I don’t want to sound like I am oblivious to that.
As for rescuing people from XO Jet, it is not a bad company to work for. I actually know quite a few people over there with no desire to do airline flying and have been there quite some time. Same with NetJets and Flexjet. I think there is a tone on the forum that it’s a god awful place and a bottom feeder operation. Many there would disagree! Just saying, I am thankful I was picked to come to SWA, and that doesn’t mean I was rescued...and I am not alone. :).

I don't even have to read the responses here to guess what the angry old man brigade has to say about this. Let the hate flow through you.

Do the Destination 225° pathways guarantee a
 

https://careers.southwestair.com/D225FAQ