SWA or JetBlue
04-15-2019, 09:14 PM
#51
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2016
Posts: 101
JB won’t take as long for ETOPS as we did. We had to rewrite the book on ETOPS because it simply wasn’t good enough for us. This, of course, made the approval process take longer. Since ETOPS procedures are now perfected, JetBlue can simply piggyback off our contribution to the industry.
04-16-2019, 07:15 AM
#52
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2015
Posts: 834
As of August, with the deliveries that are currently not being delivered along with the 34 airplanes that are already parked we will be down 42 total from what was planned. We staff at 13 pilots per airplane. So, I would say that puts the overstaff at 546. We haven’t even cancelled a class yet. Interesting times.
And we haven't cancelled those deliveries or sold those parked airplanes. They will all come back online a some point and need to be staffed.
I'll agree that 13 pilot per airplane overall is somewhat overstaffed, but since the company likes this level of staffing, parking the MAX for now won't have a big impact on their plans.
04-16-2019, 08:41 AM
#53
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,027
Heck, with a few exceptions, since Jan 2018, a few days after the 25th, there are maybe 20 trips (usually less) in ELITT for the next month and the net zero climbs to February levels in a few hours. It's been hovering in the mid 80's for the last few weeks.
Good times.
04-16-2019, 03:33 PM
#54
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Posts: 536
I haven't seen even 10 trips on one day in open time in MCO Capt. for well over a year. Can't ever recall 20, even before the overstaffing. ATL is even worse, as I suspect is PHX, although I rarely look at it.
Heck, with a few exceptions, since Jan 2018, a few days after the 25th, there are maybe 20 trips (usually less) in ELITT for the next month and the net zero climbs to February levels in a few hours. It's been hovering in the mid 80's for the last few weeks.
Good times.
Heck, with a few exceptions, since Jan 2018, a few days after the 25th, there are maybe 20 trips (usually less) in ELITT for the next month and the net zero climbs to February levels in a few hours. It's been hovering in the mid 80's for the last few weeks.
Good times.
5/1/19 - 264.18
5/1/20 - 269.46
5/1/21 - 274.86
This is just a snapshot in time, and I’m sure it will change, but unlike WN, B6 is always understaffed, guys/gals making bank on 150%, soon to be 200% voluntary work. Just something to consider, but WN has much better profit sharing.
04-16-2019, 11:44 PM
#55
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,027
JetBlue 12 Yr A320 CA
5/1/19 - 264.18
5/1/20 - 269.46
5/1/21 - 274.86
This is just a snapshot in time, and I’m sure it will change, but unlike WN, B6 is always understaffed, guys/gals making bank on 150%, soon to be 200% voluntary work. Just something to consider, but WN has much better profit sharing.
5/1/19 - 264.18
5/1/20 - 269.46
5/1/21 - 274.86
This is just a snapshot in time, and I’m sure it will change, but unlike WN, B6 is always understaffed, guys/gals making bank on 150%, soon to be 200% voluntary work. Just something to consider, but WN has much better profit sharing.
Up until 2018, we were typically "understaffed" (by industry standards) too, at least in the 23+ years I've been here. I've never seen it like this here, something I've been saying every month since Jan 2018.
Not sure what you think I should be considering........
Should I consider quitting WN and applying at B6?
04-17-2019, 04:51 AM
#56
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Posts: 536
Up until 2018, we were typically "understaffed" (by industry standards) too, at least in the 23+ years I've been here. I've never seen it like this here, something I've been saying every month since Jan 2018.
Not sure what you think I should be considering........ Should I consider quitting WN and applying at B6?
Not sure what you think I should be considering........
Should I consider quitting WN and applying at B6?Essentially the pay is the same at both, with lots of 150% and 200% opportunities if you like to work extra at B6. Sounds like extra premium pay work is slowing at WN, but probably a temporary problem once MAX is flying again. The upgrade potential might also be slightly faster at B6.
E-190 is a downside at B6, but E-190 is going away, and the A-220 has a much better pay scale (12yr CA - $258), basically 737 pay. Also, with the Europe flying announcement in 2021, wouldn’t be surprised to see a different pay scale negotiated for A321LR, probably 757/767ish. There may even be an outside section 6 pay scale for A321LR/ETOPS, I.E. sooner??? It’s not currently addressed in the contract...Going to be very interesting to see how this is handled by ALPA, and it will be tough for the company to argue otherwise with the Trans Atlantic flying. So there may be a “pseudo-wide body like” pay scale upside potential at B6 that people aren’t considered vs WN.
Also there is a temporary upside to the E-190 with everyone leaving it quickly for the Bus, it offers a quick upgrade opportunity. Now an E-190 CA with “extra work” at 150/200% is better $$$ wise than a WN F/O waiting for upgrade.
Family consideration...B6 going to Europe, the MINT Business class is a really nice product, for $75 maybe a nice treat for your family to LHR/LGW/AMS trip in style, (if those seats are ever empty???).
WN has Hawaii flying, the profit sharing is way better, and there are more domiciles to chose from. In the old days it was an easy choice, but now pay is essentially the same at both, with potential for an upside at B6 with A321LR. Tough call, hopefully the folks comparing have both to chose from.
04-17-2019, 05:10 AM
#57
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2016
Posts: 101
It's funny ... I know a couple of FLL guys/gals who quit SWA for JB ... and they are happy ... on the left seat!
23+ year seniority and you are still around ... retire and enjoy your grandkids! Lol
04-17-2019, 05:57 AM
#58
Line Holder
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Sep 2013
Posts: 74
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvZF_wtvy5Q
"SWA is gonna get you... SWA will take you away ... SWA is gonna save yaaaa ... save ya from the boring daaaays!"
Jokes apart ... a couple of years ago we did not have any doubt ... and if we are having this conversation is because JB has done something good ...
"SWA is gonna get you... SWA will take you away ... SWA is gonna save yaaaa ... save ya from the boring daaaays!"
Jokes apart ... a couple of years ago we did not have any doubt ... and if we are having this conversation is because JB has done something good ...
04-17-2019, 06:20 AM
#59
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,013
Nope, nothing to consider for you with 23+ years seniority, you’re smooth sailing...😎 at WN. Response was meant for the thread topic “WN vs B6” and the newbies who are considering where to go and comparing the two.
Essentially the pay is the same at both, with lots of 150% and 200% opportunities if you like to work extra at B6. Sounds like extra premium pay work is slowing at WN, but probably a temporary problem once MAX is flying again. The upgrade potential might also be slightly faster at B6.
E-190 is a downside at B6, but E-190 is going away, and the A-220 has a much better pay scale (12yr CA - $258), basically 737 pay. Also, with the Europe flying announcement in 2021, wouldn’t be surprised to see a different pay scale negotiated for A321LR, probably 757/767ish. There may even be an outside section 6 pay scale for A321LR/ETOPS, I.E. sooner??? It’s not currently addressed in the contract...Going to be very interesting to see how this is handled by ALPA, and it will be tough for the company to argue otherwise with the Trans Atlantic flying. So there may be a “pseudo-wide body like” pay scale upside potential at B6 that people aren’t considered vs WN.
Also there is a temporary upside to the E-190 with everyone leaving it quickly for the Bus, it offers a quick upgrade opportunity. Now an E-190 CA with “extra work” at 150/200% is better $$$ wise than a WN F/O waiting for upgrade.
Family consideration...B6 going to Europe, the MINT Business class is a really nice product, for $75 maybe a nice treat for your family to LHR/LGW/AMS trip in style, (if those seats are ever empty???).
WN has Hawaii flying, the profit sharing is way better, and there are more domiciles to chose from. In the old days it was an easy choice, but now pay is essentially the same at both, with potential for an upside at B6 with A321LR. Tough call, hopefully the folks comparing have both to chose from.
Essentially the pay is the same at both, with lots of 150% and 200% opportunities if you like to work extra at B6. Sounds like extra premium pay work is slowing at WN, but probably a temporary problem once MAX is flying again. The upgrade potential might also be slightly faster at B6.
E-190 is a downside at B6, but E-190 is going away, and the A-220 has a much better pay scale (12yr CA - $258), basically 737 pay. Also, with the Europe flying announcement in 2021, wouldn’t be surprised to see a different pay scale negotiated for A321LR, probably 757/767ish. There may even be an outside section 6 pay scale for A321LR/ETOPS, I.E. sooner??? It’s not currently addressed in the contract...Going to be very interesting to see how this is handled by ALPA, and it will be tough for the company to argue otherwise with the Trans Atlantic flying. So there may be a “pseudo-wide body like” pay scale upside potential at B6 that people aren’t considered vs WN.
Also there is a temporary upside to the E-190 with everyone leaving it quickly for the Bus, it offers a quick upgrade opportunity. Now an E-190 CA with “extra work” at 150/200% is better $$$ wise than a WN F/O waiting for upgrade.
Family consideration...B6 going to Europe, the MINT Business class is a really nice product, for $75 maybe a nice treat for your family to LHR/LGW/AMS trip in style, (if those seats are ever empty???).
WN has Hawaii flying, the profit sharing is way better, and there are more domiciles to chose from. In the old days it was an easy choice, but now pay is essentially the same at both, with potential for an upside at B6 with A321LR. Tough call, hopefully the folks comparing have both to chose from.
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