Upgrade times in the future?
#31
Gets Weekend Reserve
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,776
For those who may not get it, my previous posts on this thread are completely satirical and meant as a goof.
I've gotten into a few debates over upgrade times and comensation package here, and I've provided my rationale, method, and math to support my conclusions. If anyone is interested, the search function is your friend. In short, Southwest compensation is about as free market as it gets.
Proximity is right on the money in his posts. I will add one more fundamental item that many seem to forget, and that's our scope. All Southwest Airlines passengers are flown by Southwest Airlines pilots, PERIOD. Taken for granted, but kinda eye-opening when you read other boards.
Upgrades are way towards the bottom of my list of priorities for similar reasons as others have mentioned, but that's just me.
I've gotten into a few debates over upgrade times and comensation package here, and I've provided my rationale, method, and math to support my conclusions. If anyone is interested, the search function is your friend. In short, Southwest compensation is about as free market as it gets.
Proximity is right on the money in his posts. I will add one more fundamental item that many seem to forget, and that's our scope. All Southwest Airlines passengers are flown by Southwest Airlines pilots, PERIOD. Taken for granted, but kinda eye-opening when you read other boards.
Upgrades are way towards the bottom of my list of priorities for similar reasons as others have mentioned, but that's just me.
#32
For those who may not get it, my previous posts on this thread are completely satirical and meant as a goof.
I've gotten into a few debates over upgrade times and comensation package here, and I've provided my rationale, method, and math to support my conclusions. If anyone is interested, the search function is your friend. In short, Southwest compensation is about as free market as it gets.
Proximity is right on the money in his posts. I will add one more fundamental item that many seem to forget, and that's our scope. All Southwest Airlines passengers are flown by Southwest Airlines pilots, PERIOD. Taken for granted, but kinda eye-opening when you read other boards.
Upgrades are way towards the bottom of my list of priorities for similar reasons as others have mentioned, but that's just me.
I've gotten into a few debates over upgrade times and comensation package here, and I've provided my rationale, method, and math to support my conclusions. If anyone is interested, the search function is your friend. In short, Southwest compensation is about as free market as it gets.
Proximity is right on the money in his posts. I will add one more fundamental item that many seem to forget, and that's our scope. All Southwest Airlines passengers are flown by Southwest Airlines pilots, PERIOD. Taken for granted, but kinda eye-opening when you read other boards.
Upgrades are way towards the bottom of my list of priorities for similar reasons as others have mentioned, but that's just me.
Agree.
This is an enormous airline with an impressive domestic network. The only downside to not having an “Express” division is it’s hard to get to places like Knoxville, Savannah, Syracuse, Burlington, Branson, Key West without a lengthy drive on one end. I have a dream that we will serve those cities with an Armada of A220s someday soon though.
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#33
Line Holder
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Posts: 59
Again, what?
Do you seriously have zero reading comprehension? I never stated I work at SWA, and actually CLEARLY stated my information was from the in-house career fair and other posts on this forum. I do, in fact, fly for Endeavor, not something I'm hiding. SWA is a career goal. Something else I've made abundantly clear.
Troll? Read my post history.
Do you seriously have zero reading comprehension? I never stated I work at SWA, and actually CLEARLY stated my information was from the in-house career fair and other posts on this forum. I do, in fact, fly for Endeavor, not something I'm hiding. SWA is a career goal. Something else I've made abundantly clear.
Troll? Read my post history.
#34
Gets Weekend Reserve
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,776
Agree.
This is an enormous airline with an impressive domestic network. The only downside to not having an “Express” division is it’s hard to get to places like Knoxville, Savannah, Syracuse, Burlington, Branson, Key West without a lengthy drive on one end. I have a dream that we will serve those cities with an Armada of A220s someday soon though.
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This is an enormous airline with an impressive domestic network. The only downside to not having an “Express” division is it’s hard to get to places like Knoxville, Savannah, Syracuse, Burlington, Branson, Key West without a lengthy drive on one end. I have a dream that we will serve those cities with an Armada of A220s someday soon though.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
The ONLY downside indeed. As for A220... we can only hope. No SJS, but what an airplane!
#35
Layover Master
Joined APC: Jan 2013
Position: Seated
Posts: 4,320
It’s always been by number one choice. Schedules, profitability, security, smart business decisions, cool people, and many friends there. Endeavor being in-line Delta means little to nothing, we have a “Delta Guaranteed Interview”, but it’s not why I’m here. Delta has a great product, I just don’t see myself there.
#36
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2012
Position: 737 CA
Posts: 508
It’s always been by number one choice. Schedules, profitability, security, smart business decisions, cool people, and many friends there. Endeavor being in-line Delta means little to nothing, we have a “Delta Guaranteed Interview”, but it’s not why I’m here. Delta has a great product, I just don’t see myself there.
#37
Layover Master
Joined APC: Jan 2013
Position: Seated
Posts: 4,320
Good luck with your Endeavors (pun intended). I read your post and while I'd say its not necessarily accurate, I didn't see any intentional flame baiting in there, so I'm not quite sure why you were piled on like that. I hope you land your dream job. I think people on APC, or any social media outlet for that matter, get a little too emotional with anything they read. I'm guilty as charged on occassion as well. The next few years should be pretty interesting a SWA.
#38
Swimmin' in da pool
Joined APC: Jan 2014
Posts: 444
Fewer retirements have ensured long upgrade times at WN but there was always ample income opportunity with premium open time. Is it true that senior guys are now slugging it out over straight pay due to over-staffing(?) Very unlike the lean old Southwest Trailways to overstaff and I'm hearing the hiring isn't slowing down in 2019. Temporary or is WN permanently moving to a traditional staffing model with more reserves? Ramping up for HI? Hoarding the dwindling number of pilots left out there? What is your management and/or union saying about conditions going forward?
SW is a great brand and stable place to work with its strong domestic focus and balance sheet but it's outgrown it's folksy-fun culture with size and corporate feel and like others, it's a job, and a demanding one from what I hear. Without the income potential to make up the ~$30/hour difference from legacy FO pay (years 1-4), I'm curious as to what SWA HR feels makes them competitive to the dwindling pool of candidates(?).
Flow through programs, wide bodies and quick upgrades ensure legacies are getting the lion share of regional guys, and what's left (ever-dwindling military/corporate) are lured by what appears ON PAPER to be better pay offered at Legacies and Freight. Even second tier ULCCs are offering ballpark compensation with better equipment, quicker upgrades, home every night, etc.
Again, the variable being income opportunity, just wondering whether WN management realizes they're no longer seen as the mid 2000's destination of choice and are trying to get what they can before word gets out.
No flame, honest questions.
SW is a great brand and stable place to work with its strong domestic focus and balance sheet but it's outgrown it's folksy-fun culture with size and corporate feel and like others, it's a job, and a demanding one from what I hear. Without the income potential to make up the ~$30/hour difference from legacy FO pay (years 1-4), I'm curious as to what SWA HR feels makes them competitive to the dwindling pool of candidates(?).
Flow through programs, wide bodies and quick upgrades ensure legacies are getting the lion share of regional guys, and what's left (ever-dwindling military/corporate) are lured by what appears ON PAPER to be better pay offered at Legacies and Freight. Even second tier ULCCs are offering ballpark compensation with better equipment, quicker upgrades, home every night, etc.
Again, the variable being income opportunity, just wondering whether WN management realizes they're no longer seen as the mid 2000's destination of choice and are trying to get what they can before word gets out.
No flame, honest questions.
Last edited by dawgdriver; 11-21-2018 at 08:55 AM.
#39
I think you’re definitely in the ballpark.
The only thing I would add is that there is very weak junior manning (JA) language in the CBA. If you are assigned flying on a day off you will receive double time OR the rig, whichever is greater. If it’s a holiday or you’re already flying for premium there’s really no benefit. You couldn’t bid a trip that finished on December 23rd without being worried about being JAd into Christmas morning. And in 2016 the summer schedule for a lineholder was rarely what ended up happening. Was it lucrative? Sometimes. But it wasn’t family friendly at all.
As a result a lot of pilots complained (rightfully so!) The union published the % increase of JAs year over year and the result was staggering. And it didn’t even include extensions on the last day of flying or unscheduled overnights!
The company made a commitment to reduce JAs... which, in fairness they have done. I haven’t been JAd at all this year for the first time in 5 years. It’s been awesome!
Of course the down side to that staffing improvement is a higher percentage of reserves, less premium, etc.
Hopefully after Hawaii starts and LAX opens they can start to right size the staffing so that the result is ‘fewer’ JAs but still some
opportunity for premium flying for those who value the $ above the time off.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
The only thing I would add is that there is very weak junior manning (JA) language in the CBA. If you are assigned flying on a day off you will receive double time OR the rig, whichever is greater. If it’s a holiday or you’re already flying for premium there’s really no benefit. You couldn’t bid a trip that finished on December 23rd without being worried about being JAd into Christmas morning. And in 2016 the summer schedule for a lineholder was rarely what ended up happening. Was it lucrative? Sometimes. But it wasn’t family friendly at all.
As a result a lot of pilots complained (rightfully so!) The union published the % increase of JAs year over year and the result was staggering. And it didn’t even include extensions on the last day of flying or unscheduled overnights!
The company made a commitment to reduce JAs... which, in fairness they have done. I haven’t been JAd at all this year for the first time in 5 years. It’s been awesome!
Of course the down side to that staffing improvement is a higher percentage of reserves, less premium, etc.
Hopefully after Hawaii starts and LAX opens they can start to right size the staffing so that the result is ‘fewer’ JAs but still some
opportunity for premium flying for those who value the $ above the time off.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
#40
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,920
According to the Bob’s in DAL they’re also front loading the upgrades next year which should help a little with the overmanned FO situation. 400 upgrades by end of June with 100 more the remainder of 2019.
New hire classes are full through April due to reduced initial classes and new hire classes will ramp up the 2nd half of the year as upgrades taper off. Subject to change of course....
New hire classes are full through April due to reduced initial classes and new hire classes will ramp up the 2nd half of the year as upgrades taper off. Subject to change of course....
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