Why is line bidding better than PBS?
10-11-2018, 03:26 AM
#31
The NeverEnding Story
Joined APC: Sep 2005
Posts: 7,619
UPS guy here....
Folks say “you don’t have to have line bidding in order to have conflict bidding!!1!” but how many legacy, major, LLC or regionals have 1. PBS and 2. Conflict bidding?
Basically none, because the big efficiency of PBS is scheduling around vacation and training conflicts to reduce manpower needs. PBS with after-award conflict doesn’t provide any economic benefit for an airline.
I think there’s a reason some pilot groups are clinging to their archaic line bidding...and it ain’t aversion to technology.
Folks say “you don’t have to have line bidding in order to have conflict bidding!!1!” but how many legacy, major, LLC or regionals have 1. PBS and 2. Conflict bidding?
Basically none, because the big efficiency of PBS is scheduling around vacation and training conflicts to reduce manpower needs. PBS with after-award conflict doesn’t provide any economic benefit for an airline.
I think there’s a reason some pilot groups are clinging to their archaic line bidding...and it ain’t aversion to technology.
10-11-2018, 05:21 AM
#32
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2009
Position: 737
Posts: 190
For me it's about the extra $22-$25K that I get each year in vacation pay--which I use to replace days worked. I will cling to that like a 3 yr old holds a silk blanket.
10-11-2018, 06:16 AM
#33
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2015
Posts: 313
I think we have enough new hires who got screwed for the last 10 yrs at a undesirable location with crap work rules pushed on them that they won't go backward again and those who have been at wn for a while are listening to the horror stories of the lost decade.
I think we won't do any more concession.
I think we won't do any more concession.
It’s not the new hires that will be the problem. I think we have turned a corner, but their is still a portion out there that don’t get it.
10-11-2018, 08:15 AM
#35
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,027
You guys crack me up. I am the founding member of the moderate wing of SWAPA since apparently I am the only one who voted yes on TA2 and still refuses to wear a flag tie. Also voted to change vacation bidding. Also picketed during negotiations. Also will gladly vote no on anything containing the letters P B or S.
Turns out you don’t have to be a koolie or a DBMIVN guy. Vote your heart and have some pride in your job and your fellow pilots. It’s not that hard.
Turns out you don’t have to be a koolie or a DBMIVN guy. Vote your heart and have some pride in your job and your fellow pilots. It’s not that hard.
10-11-2018, 10:04 AM
#36
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2013
Posts: 3,721
What is your case exactly? Pilots are dumb because we want to change the screwed up process of vacation bidding? We don’t know what we are getting ourselves into so we should let smart guys who just vote no on everything decide for us?
The majority of the union has spoken. We aren’t dumb and we aren’t koolies.
I agree that the law of unintended consequences applies to voting in restrictions, but this isn’t a restriction. It is the end of the bastardization of block bidding.
SWAPA has created a tidal wave of pro pilot momentum. This isn’t the swapa of 4 years ago and I hope we never go back to those dark days.
10-11-2018, 10:11 AM
#37
More Cowbell!!!
Joined APC: Nov 2011
Position: Spreading the LUV from the "Write" seat!!!
Posts: 346
10-11-2018, 10:35 AM
#38
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,027
That this "moderate" pilot group is it's own worst enemy.
Since "we" voted to change it for the worse, I'd say, yes.
If the proposed solution is ever actually enacted, less people will get the vacations they want than they do now.
How about just voting no yourself? The vast majority of the stuff we all hate about our contract is self induced.
Based on the results of decades of yes votes, this comment contradicts itself. 
BTW, not even close to the majority of our pilot group ended up voting for the "winning" solution in the VBB debacle last year.
Hooray! We ended evil block bidding, and voted for a worse system that subrogates seniority, but might allow someone to get awarded a "prime" week a year or so earlier. Ironically, it result in fewer people actually ending up with the weeks that they want. Ultimately, the entire group is harmed by the change, and not just the evil senior block bidders.
Nice job guys!
What's next? Elimination of pure weekday lines, you know, because it's "unfair" that the senior folks are awarded ALL of them, and then (gasp!) trade or even give them away(!)?
After 20 years of watching SWApA, with the help of this apathetic pilot group, give away the store, I was actually very happy with the 180 that SWAPA pulled in 2016.
Then, they did another one with the divisive VBB nonsense.
Instead of trying to fix actual problems in our contract, due to pressure from a few squeaky wheels, they put that abortion out for a vote, where a minority of folks decided to shoot the entire pilot group in our collective foot.
Pilots are dumb because we want to change the screwed up process of vacation bidding?
If the proposed solution is ever actually enacted, less people will get the vacations they want than they do now.
We don’t know what we are getting ourselves into so we should let smart guys who just vote no on everything decide for us?
The majority of the union has spoken. We aren’t dumb and we aren’t koolies.
BTW, not even close to the majority of our pilot group ended up voting for the "winning" solution in the VBB debacle last year.
I agree that the law of unintended consequences applies to voting in restrictions, but this isn’t a restriction. It is the end of the bastardization of block bidding.
Nice job guys!
What's next? Elimination of pure weekday lines, you know, because it's "unfair" that the senior folks are awarded ALL of them, and then (gasp!) trade or even give them away(!)?
SWAPA has created a tidal wave of pro pilot momentum. This isn’t the swapa of 4 years ago and I hope we never go back to those dark days.
Then, they did another one with the divisive VBB nonsense.
Instead of trying to fix actual problems in our contract, due to pressure from a few squeaky wheels, they put that abortion out for a vote, where a minority of folks decided to shoot the entire pilot group in our collective foot.
10-11-2018, 10:49 AM
#39
Furloughed Again?!
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Aug 2007
Position: Boeing 737
Posts: 4,804
What is your case exactly? Pilots are dumb because we want to change the screwed up process of vacation bidding? We don’t know what we are getting ourselves into so we should let smart guys who just vote no on everything decide for us?
The majority of the union has spoken. We aren’t dumb and we aren’t koolies.
I agree that the law of unintended consequences applies to voting in restrictions, but this isn’t a restriction. It is the end of the bastardization of block bidding.
SWAPA has created a tidal wave of pro pilot momentum. This isn’t the swapa of 4 years ago and I hope we never go back to those dark days.
The majority of the union has spoken. We aren’t dumb and we aren’t koolies.
I agree that the law of unintended consequences applies to voting in restrictions, but this isn’t a restriction. It is the end of the bastardization of block bidding.
SWAPA has created a tidal wave of pro pilot momentum. This isn’t the swapa of 4 years ago and I hope we never go back to those dark days.
If you ever run for rep, you’ve got my vote.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
10-11-2018, 11:30 AM
#40
Banned
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: Narrow/Left Wide/Right
Posts: 3,655
UPS guy here....
Folks say “you don’t have to have line bidding in order to have conflict bidding!!1!” but how many legacy, major, LLC or regionals have 1. PBS and 2. Conflict bidding?
Basically none, because the big efficiency of PBS is scheduling around vacation and training conflicts to reduce manpower needs. PBS with after-award conflict doesn’t provide any economic benefit for an airline.
I think there’s a reason some pilot groups are clinging to their archaic line bidding...and it ain’t aversion to technology.
Folks say “you don’t have to have line bidding in order to have conflict bidding!!1!” but how many legacy, major, LLC or regionals have 1. PBS and 2. Conflict bidding?
Basically none, because the big efficiency of PBS is scheduling around vacation and training conflicts to reduce manpower needs. PBS with after-award conflict doesn’t provide any economic benefit for an airline.
I think there’s a reason some pilot groups are clinging to their archaic line bidding...and it ain’t aversion to technology.
Even SWA management wouldn't go for that, just like no management is going to allow PBS to run and then drop vacation on top to drop trips. That's worse than line bidding alone for mgmt.
Most of the large pilot groups on PBS didn't "negotiate" it, it came as a package of pay cuts and work rules that were jammed down the union's throat in front of a BK judge.
If you think Delta or UAL at least "gave away" line bidding then you don't know your history and/or weren't paying attention.
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