Outsider looking in
10-23-2018, 10:16 AM
#21
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2011
Posts: 290
This, in a nutshell, is why I stopped commuting by air. Well, that and SW opening a domicile that I can drive to. 
I do PMs exclusively. I've got a 3 to 5(!) hour drive going to work, and 2:35-2:40 going home (late at night). It is exponentially better than commuting beyond driving distance on an airplane, which I did for over a decade, but it still sucks. I try to put trips together every month, typically into 2, 6 day blocks, which also sucks, but not as much as the 12+ hours of driving that I'd be doing otherwise.
After living in my town for almost 31 years, and 17 years of doing the drive, we are planning a move closer to a domicile.
Between the traffic, (mostly caused by the completely unfettered home building without adding any road volume nearly the entire way to and from work), erosion of line quality/flexibility, it's become an untenable situation. And I am pretty senior. I can't imagine trying to do what I do as a junior guy. I spend FAR too much time on ELITT and TTGA trying to trade weekdays for weekends or partial weekends to block my trips together. You'd think that would be a cakewalk, and it used to be. Apparently, folks love flying on weekends nowadays.
The traffic has gotten so bad here that I've started driving up the night before and do the hotel thing if I have a reports before 1300 (which puts me leaving during the AM rush hour). SO much less stressful than playing pole position for 3-4 hours before working a full day.
Unless we go back to our old manning levels, forget about premium time etc., unless you can snag the last minute stuff, which you can't do 3-4 hours away.
I do PMs exclusively. I've got a 3 to 5(!) hour drive going to work, and 2:35-2:40 going home (late at night). It is exponentially better than commuting beyond driving distance on an airplane, which I did for over a decade, but it still sucks. I try to put trips together every month, typically into 2, 6 day blocks, which also sucks, but not as much as the 12+ hours of driving that I'd be doing otherwise.
After living in my town for almost 31 years, and 17 years of doing the drive, we are planning a move closer to a domicile.
Between the traffic, (mostly caused by the completely unfettered home building without adding any road volume nearly the entire way to and from work), erosion of line quality/flexibility, it's become an untenable situation. And I am pretty senior. I can't imagine trying to do what I do as a junior guy. I spend FAR too much time on ELITT and TTGA trying to trade weekdays for weekends or partial weekends to block my trips together. You'd think that would be a cakewalk, and it used to be. Apparently, folks love flying on weekends nowadays.
The traffic has gotten so bad here that I've started driving up the night before and do the hotel thing if I have a reports before 1300 (which puts me leaving during the AM rush hour). SO much less stressful than playing pole position for 3-4 hours before working a full day.
Unless we go back to our old manning levels, forget about premium time etc., unless you can snag the last minute stuff, which you can't do 3-4 hours away.
10-23-2018, 11:00 AM
#22
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,027
Lots of moving parts, and very expensive for what'll save me a few hours per month. If I had a longer drive, the rate of return starts to make more sense.
I've also considered buying a lot at a local fly in community, which would obviously simplify the situation on the home end, considerably, but it's still a lot of cash just to get to and from work.
Last edited by SlipKid; 10-23-2018 at 11:21 AM.
10-24-2018, 10:49 AM
#23
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2011
Posts: 290
In reality, the numbers really might not need to totally make sense. With the option of not sitting in traffic, lots of other options open up. Plus, even if the time spent is a wash, and it costs a little more, not having to commute in traffic is a huge QOL gainer. Imagine being excited to make the trip to and from work... and you don't feel like you had to travel at all.
And then there is using the airplane to travel on your vacations or off days. Realistically, you could do this in a 20K 172, or even better an older bonanza. Just sayin...
And then there is using the airplane to travel on your vacations or off days. Realistically, you could do this in a 20K 172, or even better an older bonanza. Just sayin...
10-24-2018, 12:34 PM
#24
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,027
A few of our guys that live in the panhandle (5-6 hour drive) commute (or did) by light airplane. One of them retired, and I think the other one now commutes to HOU on us, now that we have flights there out of his home city. Even then, those guys drove to MCO more than once in a while(!).
Avoiding the 3+ hours of pole position driving to work sounds great, but the time savings is almost negligible when averaged over the drive to and from work.
With no traffic, door to door, I'll save about 45 minutes going to work and about 20 minutes coming home. The reason that the average drive time home is significantly shorter is due to the late hour = exponentially less traffic.
WX on the way home is a big issue in the winter, as on many nights, it's often well below Cat 1 ILS minimums from Bartow to Marco Is. None of the local fields even have ILS. I'd either be spending another night in MCO, going to an alternate 45 minutes away (hit or miss when the fog rolls in) or leaving the airplane in MCO, renting a car and driving home (and then renting another one to drive back). The latter results in yet another 2 hours of my time on days off returning and picking up rentals. Not to mention that the airplane would sit outside for another week or so until i went back.
In the summer, there are the afternoon t-storms to deal with Most of the time, my show times are before they roll in, but it's another consideration.
The last time I ran the numbers, using something simple like a Cherokee 180 or AA5 Tiger as a baseline, I was looking at roughly $1k per month to commute 4 times, for fuel, tie down at MCO, T hangar at the home airport, insurance, engine time etc., and that wasn't including the purchase cost of the airplane, the annual or any unscheduled mx. Fuel was more expensive back then ($6-7 gallon up in MCO, IIRC. You had to buy a minimum amount, which I think was 5 gallons, to avoid an exorbitant "handling" fee, again, IIRC, on top of the $175 per month tie down fee. ), and that was more than half the total cost of the commute.
Even if I take my full sized pickup, it's about $130 per month right now for gas and tolls, and another $140 for hotels between my trips, doing 2 commutes. That wouldn't even come close to covering hangar rent and tie down at MCO, which was $425, combined, and that was the cost 4.5 years ago.
Imagine being excited to make the trip to and from work... and you don't feel like you had to travel at all.
And I'd still be spending 70-80 minutes, per commute, in the car.
And then there is using the airplane to travel on your vacations or off days. Realistically, you could do this in a 20K 172, or even better an older bonanza. Just sayin...
I also considered an old Mooney, but it wasn't worth the added complexity/cost for the small time savings I'd get on the 130 mile trip.
TBH, I have very little interest in owning a light airplane other than for avoiding the 180 miles of Pole Position going to work.
FWIW, I really wanted this to work, to avoid moving. But as I said, the numbers don't add up, plus the unfettered growth in our area has gotten out of hand, so we're not as enamored with it as we used to be, in fact, after 32 years, I am starting to really dislike it here.
Unless a miracle (like a FLL base
) occurs in the next few months, we're just gonna move closer.
Last edited by SlipKid; 10-24-2018 at 01:00 PM.
10-24-2018, 09:44 PM
#26
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2012
Position: CRJ FO
Posts: 4,601
There is no doubt that there are advantages to an airplane commute, but in my case, the added cost and additional "moving parts" don't make much sense, which is why I scrapped the idea.
A few of our guys that live in the panhandle (5-6 hour drive) commute (or did) by light airplane. One of them retired, and I think the other one now commutes to HOU on us, now that we have flights there out of his home city. Even then, those guys drove to MCO more than once in a while(!).
Avoiding the 3+ hours of pole position driving to work sounds great, but the time savings is almost negligible when averaged over the drive to and from work.
With no traffic, door to door, I'll save about 45 minutes going to work and about 20 minutes coming home. The reason that the average drive time home is significantly shorter is due to the late hour = exponentially less traffic.
WX on the way home is a big issue in the winter, as on many nights, it's often well below Cat 1 ILS minimums from Bartow to Marco Is. None of the local fields even have ILS. I'd either be spending another night in MCO, going to an alternate 45 minutes away (hit or miss when the fog rolls in) or leaving the airplane in MCO, renting a car and driving home (and then renting another one to drive back). The latter results in yet another 2 hours of my time on days off returning and picking up rentals. Not to mention that the airplane would sit outside for another week or so until i went back.
In the summer, there are the afternoon t-storms to deal with Most of the time, my show times are before they roll in, but it's another consideration.
The last time I ran the numbers, using something simple like a Cherokee 180 or AA5 Tiger as a baseline, I was looking at roughly $1k per month to commute 4 times, for fuel, tie down at MCO, T hangar at the home airport, insurance, engine time etc., and that wasn't including the purchase cost of the airplane, the annual or any unscheduled mx. Fuel was more expensive back then ($6-7 gallon up in MCO, IIRC. You had to buy a minimum amount, which I think was 5 gallons, to avoid an exorbitant "handling" fee, again, IIRC, on top of the $175 per month tie down fee. ), and that was more than half the total cost of the commute.
Even if I take my full sized pickup, it's about $130 per month right now for gas and tolls, and another $140 for hotels between my trips, doing 2 commutes. That wouldn't even come close to covering hangar rent and tie down at MCO, which was $425, combined, and that was the cost 4.5 years ago.
That'd be awesome, but I can't imagine being much more excited to get in a light airplane at midnight after a 10-12 hour duty day than I am getting in my car. And I'd still be spending 70-80 minutes, per commute, in the car.
Yeah, that's why I was considering something with an O-360, since, for the most part, they have enough usable load to take 2 people, a few bags, the dog and enough fuel to actually go somewhere, vs. going real cheap and getting a C150, Cherokee 140 or the like.
I also considered an old Mooney, but it wasn't worth the added complexity/cost for the small time savings I'd get on the 130 mile trip.
TBH, I have very little interest in owning a light airplane other than for avoiding the 180 miles of Pole Position going to work.
FWIW, I really wanted this to work, to avoid moving. But as I said, the numbers don't add up, plus the unfettered growth in our area has gotten out of hand, so we're not as enamored with it as we used to be, in fact, after 32 years, I am starting to really dislike it here.
Unless a miracle (like a FLL base) occurs in the next few months, we're just gonna move closer.
A few of our guys that live in the panhandle (5-6 hour drive) commute (or did) by light airplane. One of them retired, and I think the other one now commutes to HOU on us, now that we have flights there out of his home city. Even then, those guys drove to MCO more than once in a while(!).
Avoiding the 3+ hours of pole position driving to work sounds great, but the time savings is almost negligible when averaged over the drive to and from work.
With no traffic, door to door, I'll save about 45 minutes going to work and about 20 minutes coming home. The reason that the average drive time home is significantly shorter is due to the late hour = exponentially less traffic.
WX on the way home is a big issue in the winter, as on many nights, it's often well below Cat 1 ILS minimums from Bartow to Marco Is. None of the local fields even have ILS. I'd either be spending another night in MCO, going to an alternate 45 minutes away (hit or miss when the fog rolls in) or leaving the airplane in MCO, renting a car and driving home (and then renting another one to drive back). The latter results in yet another 2 hours of my time on days off returning and picking up rentals. Not to mention that the airplane would sit outside for another week or so until i went back.
In the summer, there are the afternoon t-storms to deal with Most of the time, my show times are before they roll in, but it's another consideration.
The last time I ran the numbers, using something simple like a Cherokee 180 or AA5 Tiger as a baseline, I was looking at roughly $1k per month to commute 4 times, for fuel, tie down at MCO, T hangar at the home airport, insurance, engine time etc., and that wasn't including the purchase cost of the airplane, the annual or any unscheduled mx. Fuel was more expensive back then ($6-7 gallon up in MCO, IIRC. You had to buy a minimum amount, which I think was 5 gallons, to avoid an exorbitant "handling" fee, again, IIRC, on top of the $175 per month tie down fee. ), and that was more than half the total cost of the commute.
Even if I take my full sized pickup, it's about $130 per month right now for gas and tolls, and another $140 for hotels between my trips, doing 2 commutes. That wouldn't even come close to covering hangar rent and tie down at MCO, which was $425, combined, and that was the cost 4.5 years ago.
That'd be awesome, but I can't imagine being much more excited to get in a light airplane at midnight after a 10-12 hour duty day than I am getting in my car.
And I'd still be spending 70-80 minutes, per commute, in the car. Yeah, that's why I was considering something with an O-360, since, for the most part, they have enough usable load to take 2 people, a few bags, the dog and enough fuel to actually go somewhere, vs. going real cheap and getting a C150, Cherokee 140 or the like.
I also considered an old Mooney, but it wasn't worth the added complexity/cost for the small time savings I'd get on the 130 mile trip.
TBH, I have very little interest in owning a light airplane other than for avoiding the 180 miles of Pole Position going to work.
FWIW, I really wanted this to work, to avoid moving. But as I said, the numbers don't add up, plus the unfettered growth in our area has gotten out of hand, so we're not as enamored with it as we used to be, in fact, after 32 years, I am starting to really dislike it here.
Unless a miracle (like a FLL base
) occurs in the next few months, we're just gonna move closer.
10-25-2018, 08:43 AM
#27
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,027
Last edited by SlipKid; 10-25-2018 at 08:53 AM.
10-25-2018, 10:57 AM
#28
Gets Weekend Reserve
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,796
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