Can you guys—
04-01-2018, 01:45 PM
#61
Line Holder
Joined APC: Aug 2009
Position: 737 CA
Posts: 27
That's not what SWA hiring wants. They want the plain truth about prospective hires. Otherwise, they're gonna call you. In hindsight, I should have sent in the "not recommend". Relieved it worked out despite me not participating.
04-01-2018, 01:55 PM
#62
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Center seat, doing loops to music
Posts: 845
A FAT buddy of mine told me a story about the middle managers trying to figure out PR ops when the routes were being grabbed from the tranny, and hoo boy some of the details made me have to carry my jaw in my arms for a week. Forget Irops, a baseline 8th grade civics class was in order for these folks.
04-01-2018, 07:11 PM
#63
Gets Everyday Off
Joined APC: Aug 2016
Position: Fully Retired
Posts: 7,000
I am always hesitant to put negative things in writing. Letter, Email, texting, etc. Remember they live forever. These have a tendency to come back to bite you, in a court of law or otherwise.
Verbally in person or on the phone I am a lot more comfortable flat out stating “not recommended”.
04-06-2018, 01:47 PM
#64
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2007
Posts: 334
If the Chiefs, prior to or during a decision board, are permitted to consider a "yes recommended" letter, then it is certainly fair they should be able to consider a "not recommended" letter. I would think it helps to develop a 'whole person' picture upon which to base a CJO, or not. If you prohibit one type of letter, you need to prohibit all letters from current employees.
I'm not in the hiring business, but I suspicion that a CJO could not be pulled by a Not Recommended letter. The CJO might not be offered in the first place, if the Chiefs developed a picture of a candidate that doesn't work well with others, or won't fit into the culture preached.
Next Point:
Non-receipt of a CJO does not torpedo one's career. It might torpedo the interviewee's aspirations, but to be qualified to interview, one already is working somehow, somewhere, in this field. No CJO? Keep plugging away where you are, military-corporate-regional-ACMI-etc, and/or keep applying elsewhere.
If you can't seem to get a CJO anywhere, you might be interviewing poorly, and there are people to help with that.
If you believe your interview skills can't be improved, then maybe the historical impressions you left with coworkers is coming home to roost.
I'm not in the hiring business, but I suspicion that a CJO could not be pulled by a Not Recommended letter. The CJO might not be offered in the first place, if the Chiefs developed a picture of a candidate that doesn't work well with others, or won't fit into the culture preached.
Next Point:
Non-receipt of a CJO does not torpedo one's career. It might torpedo the interviewee's aspirations, but to be qualified to interview, one already is working somehow, somewhere, in this field. No CJO? Keep plugging away where you are, military-corporate-regional-ACMI-etc, and/or keep applying elsewhere.
If you can't seem to get a CJO anywhere, you might be interviewing poorly, and there are people to help with that.
If you believe your interview skills can't be improved, then maybe the historical impressions you left with coworkers is coming home to roost.
04-06-2018, 02:49 PM
#65
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2013
Position: 175 CA
Posts: 1,544
If the Chiefs, prior to or during a decision board, are permitted to consider a "yes recommended" letter, then it is certainly fair they should be able to consider a "not recommended" letter. I would think it helps to develop a 'whole person' picture upon which to base a CJO, or not. If you prohibit one type of letter, you need to prohibit all letters from current employees.
I'm not in the hiring business, but I suspicion that a CJO could not be pulled by a Not Recommended letter. The CJO might not be offered in the first place, if the Chiefs developed a picture of a candidate that doesn't work well with others, or won't fit into the culture preached.
Next Point:
Non-receipt of a CJO does not torpedo one's career. It might torpedo the interviewee's aspirations, but to be qualified to interview, one already is working somehow, somewhere, in this field. No CJO? Keep plugging away where you are, military-corporate-regional-ACMI-etc, and/or keep applying elsewhere.
If you can't seem to get a CJO anywhere, you might be interviewing poorly, and there are people to help with that.
If you believe your interview skills can't be improved, then maybe the historical impressions you left with coworkers is coming home to roost.
I'm not in the hiring business, but I suspicion that a CJO could not be pulled by a Not Recommended letter. The CJO might not be offered in the first place, if the Chiefs developed a picture of a candidate that doesn't work well with others, or won't fit into the culture preached.
Next Point:
Non-receipt of a CJO does not torpedo one's career. It might torpedo the interviewee's aspirations, but to be qualified to interview, one already is working somehow, somewhere, in this field. No CJO? Keep plugging away where you are, military-corporate-regional-ACMI-etc, and/or keep applying elsewhere.
If you can't seem to get a CJO anywhere, you might be interviewing poorly, and there are people to help with that.
If you believe your interview skills can't be improved, then maybe the historical impressions you left with coworkers is coming home to roost.
04-07-2018, 07:09 AM
#66
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2015
Posts: 221
Bootleg,
After reading this entire thread I can see why you may need to worry about our ability to “not recommend” a pilot applicant.
While I have never given anyone the “not recommend”, I wouldn’t hesitate to do so for someone who was unsafe or without integrity. We have an outstanding pilot group, and part of our responsibility is to help keep it outstanding through recommendations. Keep in mind that pilot recommendations are only a piece of the pie.
As far as the gal torpedoing applicants, or the dude trying to keep his past a secret, the CP group are aware (or soon will be) of troublemaker pilots who slipped through the cracks.
The system isn’t perfect, and it fails us sometimes by allowing bad dudes through and keeping good dudes out (most everyone knows a good dude who didn’t get it), but I’m consistently amazed at the job our pilot recruitment/hiring/interview team does.
After reading this entire thread I can see why you may need to worry about our ability to “not recommend” a pilot applicant.
While I have never given anyone the “not recommend”, I wouldn’t hesitate to do so for someone who was unsafe or without integrity. We have an outstanding pilot group, and part of our responsibility is to help keep it outstanding through recommendations. Keep in mind that pilot recommendations are only a piece of the pie.
As far as the gal torpedoing applicants, or the dude trying to keep his past a secret, the CP group are aware (or soon will be) of troublemaker pilots who slipped through the cracks.
The system isn’t perfect, and it fails us sometimes by allowing bad dudes through and keeping good dudes out (most everyone knows a good dude who didn’t get it), but I’m consistently amazed at the job our pilot recruitment/hiring/interview team does.
04-07-2018, 09:56 AM
#67
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2007
Posts: 334
04-07-2018, 10:45 AM
#68
Strike averted!
Joined APC: Mar 2015
Position: B737
Posts: 3,821
Let’s remember that CJO stands for Conditional Job Offer. It’s possible to have your job recinded even in newhire training (if something in your background or a lie is found).
I’ve never actually heard of anyone sending in a shoot-down letter. I know the option exists, but it’s not the same as a PRIA “we would not hire him/her again” statement.
I’ve never actually heard of anyone sending in a shoot-down letter. I know the option exists, but it’s not the same as a PRIA “we would not hire him/her again” statement.
04-08-2018, 12:13 PM
#69
With the Rebel Forces.
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jun 2015
Position: Observing
Posts: 289
Bootleg,
After reading this entire thread I can see why you may need to worry about our ability to “not recommend” a pilot applicant.
While I have never given anyone the “not recommend”, I wouldn’t hesitate to do so for someone who was unsafe or without integrity. We have an outstanding pilot group, and part of our responsibility is to help keep it outstanding through recommendations. Keep in mind that pilot recommendations are only a piece of the pie.
As far as the gal torpedoing applicants, or the dude trying to keep his past a secret, the CP group are aware (or soon will be) of troublemaker pilots who slipped through the cracks.
The system isn’t perfect, and it fails us sometimes by allowing bad dudes through and keeping good dudes out (most everyone knows a good dude who didn’t get it), but I’m consistently amazed at the job our pilot recruitment/hiring/interview team does.
After reading this entire thread I can see why you may need to worry about our ability to “not recommend” a pilot applicant.
While I have never given anyone the “not recommend”, I wouldn’t hesitate to do so for someone who was unsafe or without integrity. We have an outstanding pilot group, and part of our responsibility is to help keep it outstanding through recommendations. Keep in mind that pilot recommendations are only a piece of the pie.
As far as the gal torpedoing applicants, or the dude trying to keep his past a secret, the CP group are aware (or soon will be) of troublemaker pilots who slipped through the cracks.
The system isn’t perfect, and it fails us sometimes by allowing bad dudes through and keeping good dudes out (most everyone knows a good dude who didn’t get it), but I’m consistently amazed at the job our pilot recruitment/hiring/interview team does.
There’s no need at all for me to worry about any policy that Southwest has. I agree with you 100 percent, as every Southwest guy or gal I’ve encountered has been top notch. I’ve given many southwest pilots a jumpseat and jumped myself on SW.
I repeat, that this blackball thing is something that I had heard and simply wanted to know if In fact it was true.
And it is.
So as far as I’m concerned—case closed.
04-08-2018, 12:13 PM
#70
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2015
Posts: 221
Spark
There’s no need at all for me to worry about any policy that Southwest has. I agree with you 100 percent, as every Southwest guy or gal I’ve encountered has been top notch. I’ve given many southwest pilots a jumpseat and jumped myself on SW.
I repeat, that this blackball thing is something that I had heard and simply wanted to know if In fact it was true.
And it is.
So as far as I’m concerned—case closed.
There’s no need at all for me to worry about any policy that Southwest has. I agree with you 100 percent, as every Southwest guy or gal I’ve encountered has been top notch. I’ve given many southwest pilots a jumpseat and jumped myself on SW.
I repeat, that this blackball thing is something that I had heard and simply wanted to know if In fact it was true.
And it is.
So as far as I’m concerned—case closed.
