NikeBuddy

Hi guys, was lucky enough to get an interview offer, and need to dig into some of the nitty-gritty:

-Large family...monthly insurance cost (Prob won't do HSA)

-I have heard guys say that because of a particular RIG, or credit system you guys have, that it is not uncommon to credit quite a lot, could someone expound on that a bit, maybe a few examples would be helpful. What should I plan on for the first year or two credit wise?

-Albatross: Upgrade times. Folks are saying 15+ years. Yikes. Really yikes. I see the retirement numbers, they are quite low. Any firm GROWTH A/C orders? 10 years or less seams reasonable, over that is something to consider in my opinion. Not fussed about what seat I am in, but do care about the retirement account!

-Junior bases?

-78hrs X 77/hr start first day of training? Hotel/Per Diem?

Sorry for the deluge, and thank you kindly for your input. I have literally waited 9 years for this opportunity.

ZapBrannigan

1. The benefits people won't tell you about the "Regular Plan" but if you search here and elsewhere you will find it is a plan with no premiums and very low out of pocket maximum. The catch is that it doesn't cover preventative care, so sometimes you may need to negotiate with the doc for cash prices for little things like school physicals or mammograms. If you get the job and decide to accept we can point you in the right direction.

2. As a newhire commuting I tried to shoot for around 100 TFP per month. Now living in base I do 110-120 TFP per month without working very hard at all. Varsity players do much better. Regarding rigs, if you've worked for other airlines you know that around 5 hours per day, variable average over a trip is common. At those carriers a min rig would have a 3 day pay around 15 or a 4 day pay around 20 for example. Our min rig is an average of 6.5 per day, so a 3 day pays 19.5 and a 4 day pays 26 - minimum. Only flying one short leg on a day? It will pay at least 5 regardless of the trip rig.

- Upgrade time. Yup. 10-15 years. It's a young pilot group. The caveat is that those numbers are based solely on age 65 retirements. The company just doubled the number of simulators they have and built a massive new flight training building. Training is a leading indicator... no guarantees of course but I doubt it will really be 15 years. The good news is that if it is, FO pay rates are not too shabby. And with the B-fund in the new contract along with profit sharing many first officers are able to hit the IRS limits on their retirement by year 4 or 5. -- so you don't need to upgrade to fully fund your retirement! That is important to realize because you may decide that you don't want to upgrade. I don't know how old you are, but I've talked with many newer FOs in their late 40s and early 50s who have decided not to upgrade. Who wants to commute to reserve when they're 60? Not me. If I have to retire as an FO so be it.

- junior bases are still OAK, PHX, and LAS. Seems like most people are able to move east within a few months. The only bases you'll have to wait a while to hold are MCO and ATL. All bets are off if they open FLL and/or LAX as rumored.

- no per diem while in Dallas for training. They'll provide hotel for the duration.


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NikeBuddy

Zap! Thanks so much for the insights. For clarification, the "TFP of 100", so that would be the hourly rate on APC x 100 for example?

Additionally, how senior are HOU or DAL?

Thanks again!

flyguy81

The hourly rates on APC are converted to hourly. 1st yr is $67.32/tfp 2nd yr is $97.34 until Sept 1.

I did a 115 avg my 1st yr. In yr 2 so far I'm doing a 125 avg by picking up a couple days here and there. Can prob hold DAL/HOU in a few months depending when you get start class.

NikeBuddy

Whoops, I went and confused myself now. APC is converted? So, would a first year "TFP of 100" be the $67 x 100, or 77 (APC) x 100?

What does TFP stand for?

Is there a place to see the 'unconverted' rates? What makes SWA's system different from say UAL, etc?

Sorry for my confusion.

Ohlsan

True Comparison for Pay vs Quality of Life

Lots of good examples of pay vs QOL on this thread:

Smooth at FL450

Trip for Pay...

100 TFP x 67 is reasonable for first year planning. I hit 120 in Jan without trying (was sick for a 3-day and sat at home for a 3-day of reserve). The TFP starts to pile up just by being out in the system.

RJSAviator76

Congrats on getting the interview.

I will also echo was Zap told you about Regular plan. My family and I are on it... it saved our butts last year. As I mentioned in a different post, carry a life insurance from somewhere else, but for a large family and phenomenal medical coverage, you can't go wrong with Regular plan. 0 monthly premium. Max out of pocket $2500 for the year. That's less than monthly premiums alone would cost you on Choice Plus plan that the company pushes if you never even saw a doctor.

As for rigs and crediting a lot, it really helps if you live in base and if you're willing to work. The only barrier stopping you from easily making 6 figures here during your first year is you not willing to work... seriously, that's it.

Essentially, anything you pick up from open time... be it more reserve, straight or premium trips, will pay second year rates. My personal best as a first year guy was 170 TFP for the month. I grossed out just under 14k, not counting retirement money or per diem. And no, my dog isn't growling at me when I come home either. There are lots of turns in open time that you can pick up and make some $$$. Bottom line, only you can decide what you can plan to make... you can work the bare bones minimum every month, and you'll end up making around 80k your first year, or you can pick up and play the game and easily make 120k+ your first year. It's really up to you.

Upgrade time... currently, the juniormost captain was hired 31 Jan 2007 and shows effective captain date as of Feb 8, 2017. That's 10 years almost to the day, and he's right at 60% system seniority. I'm guessing the upgrade time will come down quite a bit more. For those hired today, barring any mergers or major downturns and downsizing, I'd guesstimate 8 years... as Zap said, I don't see stagnation being the case here. I truly doubt the company would spend that kinda money on building a new training center and getting more simulators if they weren't planning something big.

For anyone saying upgrade time is 15+ years, I always say that's only for those who are waiting for certain base or don't want to be junior captains or sit on reserve. A friend of mine who recently upgraded could have upgraded 2 years ago, but didn't want to sit reserve, so he held out until he could hold a line as captain. There are also those who choose to stay FO's because they have the best control of their schedule... Remember, you can make north of 300k here as a senior FO. How bad you want to trade flexibility for that 4th stripe considering you can make that kinda money and have the seniority to get what you want?

I will caution you on using the sliding pay scale on APC. It's only reasonably accurate if you don't pick up anything. If you start playing the pick-up game, the numbers on APC scale will be way too low.

You should be able to hold HOU within 2-3 months after hitting the line. DAL maybe a month or so longer. MCO April plug is October 2016 hire.

Good luck on your interview. Relax, be yourself and have fun... really!

e6bpilot

One hour of pay = 1.149 TFP for comparison purposes. It's stupid, I know. It baffles me to no end, but the smart people tell me it is to our advantage, so I believe them.
It is a formula based on mileage or block time based on which is greater during the flight.

You are going to a career carrier. If being a captain is important to you, don't come here. We are one merger away from a reeeeaaaaaly long upgrade time. I am personally ok with being a FO for a long time. The pay and QOL as a lineholding FO are pretty danged good.

NikeBuddy

Thanks all for the input, hoping for some LUV.